Here is a hi res download of DIR III

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Dan, I'll post it up on the mocal-dir.com website if I can have permission to do so. My b/w limit is 6000gb a month, so it should be a good place to put it. Credit will of course be given to the appropriate people.

Shoot me a PM with the correct crediting info, and I'll post it up there after I get home in a week or so.
 
I rely on the internet to learn about DIR, so I am interested to hear what else is no longer correct in that video.

DIR was and is about common sense. DIR is not a training agency approach--it began as divers sharing ideas, in person, and went on to share on the Internet as well. If you think you need to pay money, to get a good idea, then the dive industry has wonderful things in store for you :)

George's approach to the hose for ocean diving the way most scuba divers dive, was that they could use a 5 foot hose with less problem ( routing issue for 7 foot hose, so no immediate hurdle to adopt the 5 foot hose and necklace reg). Much of our ocean diving was spearfishing on reefs, and with zero need for negotiating narrow restrictions in overhead environments, the 5 foot hose was a reasonable way to get recreational divers on to the "path". The plan was get them thinking about what was wrong with stuffing an octo in a holder, and not having immediate access for buddy breathing. Since GUE is a training agency, they have stronger parameters, based on an exact picture they want every diver to become--again, this was not what we were doing with DIR....we were just trying to get common sense ideas out, to counter the misinformation of the dive industry and heavy marketing they used for this.

There were some huge issues we had to address. George and I had done too many body recoveries, and seen too many divers strggling on the bottom, to ignore it when a dive shop sold a "new tech diver wannabe" a set of double high pressure steels matched to a thick wetsuit, and then bungie wings....Forgetting the arguement about the wings for this instant, it is too easy for YOU to see what happens at 250 feet down, with a thick wetsuit and heavy steel doubles....it requires enormous air in to a BC or Wing, to get this diver off of the bottom. This was how we had the tripple death tragedy back in West Palm around 1999, when instructor andre Smith and a student and a friend, all died on the 270 foot ledge area off of Singer Island. All were in thick wetsuits for the thermocline, all were using heavy steels for the extra gas.....the survivor of the incident, told us that the student was constantly bumping in to the bottom, unable to maintain Bouyancy. This was part wing failure, and part poor matching of gear. He also told us, that ultimately, when Andre Smith tried to get the student up, he was so negative himself, that he could not get the student up. This was one incident out of many. I see a 100 pound lift dual bladder BC as a typical dive industry solution. Sure, it is possible to survive a deep dive with it, but it adds many new problems for the lift it provides.....The monster BC has enormous drag, so the diver will work harder, and breathe more gas to swim a given distance. Because of the enormous swing in bouyancy for the heavy steel tanks, the diver has to swim with lots of gas in the bladder, hugely increasing drag from this. Once the diver successfully gets to the deco depths, now he has many orders of magnitude MORE lift than he should have, and a new tech diver wanabee, who makes a mistake, could rocket to the surface with this 100 pounds of lift, now no longer as counterbalanced by the tamnks, and is combined with the wetsuit( as it is now bouyant).

Back to the student death, it appeared a failure in the wing, was allowing gas to escape, so he could not maintain lift. The bungees kept pushing out the gas, and this became fatal. Had he had the same problem with a non-bungee wing, the gas would have stayed longer, without being shoved out by the bungees.

And there is zero need for Bungees. I dive the deep reefs off of Palm Beach all the time, where the drop could mean passing through 2 different currents on the way down....The boat needs to do a great job of guessing/estimating your drop, and the diver needs to be going down at 100 feet per minute or much better if possible, the second they here the DIVE, DIVE, DIVE command. I will have pushed all the air out of my wings, and then used the oral inflator to pull out any tiny bit of gas left in the wing. There is no need for a bungee to do this--it is too easy. Once in the water, the water will do what the bungees are intended to do, so again, you don't need or want them.

Bungees are a poster child concept for DIR, as is the miss-matching of heavy steel tanks with a thick wetsuit. You don't need to take a class to hear the thinking on this..and it does not hurt that the ideas are coming from a group of divers who have the best safety and performance record of any deep cave diving team on the planet. We wanted people to hear the logic, because at the time, we were seeing too many tech divers die, and the causes were way to preventable.
And since most divers are recreational, and all divers have to start as recreational divers, prior to becoming tech divers, DIR ideas needed to get introduced early, prior to bad marketing ideas causing new rec divers to begin making dangerous gear combination choices.....This includes the whole buddy concept--the real foundation of what DIR is all about.....

Dumpster Diver, I have read posts by you before, and I have a hard time believing that you disagree with our fundamental view that new divers should be taught good buddy skills. This in itself, is pure DIR. Nothing we talk about, is more DIR than buddy skills and buddy behavior on a dive. This is common sense.

We have even had conversations about DIR for photographers and spearfishing divers--2 groups where the "mission specific" nature of their dive will render many of the common sense buddy concepts unworkable. For instance....
My wife is an excellent underwater photographer ( she shot all the photos in www.sfdj.com ) , but when she sees a turtle, or a nudibranch, or whatever, she would no longer see you or me.....for a minute to maybe 5 minutes, she is in another universe. After this shot, maybe 5 minutes later, she "can" go back to being a buddy, and doit well.....but common sense should tell us that a diver can NOT stop being a buddy for 5 minutes at a time.....The dive industry solution, which George and I hate so passionately, would be to stick a pony on her, and on you or me if we were supposed to be buddied with her. They would sell us this pony as our redundant air source. But this is a poor solution, for a person you care about.....I would NEVER allow Sandra to use a pony tank as a buddy....imagine if she goes off on her own ( as photogs do) and in the middle if shooting some macro stuff, gets tangled badly in some monofilament. This was the last subject she planned to shoot, prior to coming up ( the last 5 minutes always has the most exciting shots for a photographer :) .... So she is very low on air, but her pony is her buddy. Will the pony be able to help her get out of the monofilament? Will the pony be able to get itself out of the line wrapped around it, behind her back?
I could go on with this, but the short story is, I would never allow Sandra, or anyone else I care about, to dive this way--if I have any control of it. Sure, on a perfect, gentle reef dive, she would be fine. The idea is to be fine for every dive you do, and to not have an accident you could die from. My solution, is that Sandra will always have a buddy, and usually it will be 2 buddies. The 3 buddy team is really the only way DIR can be "approximated", as George and I could be DIR buddies, and we both are keeping an eye on Sandra. We will not expect her to see either of us having a problem, but since there are 2 DIR buddies, plus her, this is fine. Spearfishing works kind of the same way..better with 1 spearfisherman and 2 DIR buddies....but with 2 spearfisherman they can take turns shooting and watching...it is not really a problem, and is actually more fun to be diving with your friends, than to be diving solo. Again, this is comon sense, it just happens that we have bundled a bunch of what we think are good common sense ideas together--many that existed 20 years before George or I had ever heard of them....and then began trying to push these out to counter mis-information .

REgards,
Dan V
 
Dan,
To clarify. My take on your statement above (and the video) is you are specifically talking about the "Remora" back mounted ponies, not a "stage" carried tank whether it be 20cf or a standard 40cf. Is this correct?

Thanks
 
Dan,
To clarify. My take on your statement above (and the video) is you are specifically talking about the "Remora" back mounted ponies, not a "stage" carried tank whether it be 20cf or a standard 40cf. Is this correct?

Thanks
Exactly right. We don't like to see ponies mounted on the back of a scuba tank....for many reasons.

Now as to use of a pony, hung stage style.....If I were to dive the HydroAtlantic tommorow, I may use an 80 cubic foot tank-for back gas ( a mix I could breathe to the surface) and I could use a 20 cubic foot pony hung stage style, and it would contain 100% oxygen. The "pony" would NOT be redundant gas, it would be deco mix to do 5 to 10 minutes with at 20 feet deep. My dive buddy would still be my redundant air source, not my pony/stage tank. :)

Regards,
Dan V
 
After speaking with Dan, I am going to make this video available for streaming, and for download. Should be ready tonight or tomorrow. If others have videos they'd like to share (LEGALLY PLEASE) let me know and I'll add them.

Thanks.
 
DIR was and is about common sense. DIR is not a training agency approach--it began as divers sharing ideas, in person, and went on to share on the Internet as well. If you think you need to pay money, to get a good idea, then the dive industry has wonderful things in store for you :)

George's approach to the hose for ocean diving the way most scuba divers dive, was that they could use a 5 foot hose with less problem ( routing issue for 7 foot hose, so no immediate hurdle to adopt the 5 foot hose and necklace reg). ,,,,,,,,,,,...........
REgards,
Dan V

Thanks for the reasonable post Dan. I see the logic and value in the DIR information. Still, for spearfisherman (and maybe photographers) the competative nature (and selfishness) precludes many of them from being good attentive buddies. Maybe some day DIR will recognize that a (slung?) pony bottle is the lesser of 2 or 3 evils put forth by the dive agencies???????

We lost another very experienced diver (a photog.) off Jupiter 2 days ago. No pony bottle; separated from her buddy during ascent, apparently within less than 50 feet of surface. Her boy friend recovered her body after a 24-hr soak. Both are friends of mine. We don't yet have a definitive answer, but I just have to wonder if even a 6 cu-ft pony bottle MIGHT have made a difference for her. As you are well aware, these are not esoteric issues, they can be the difference between life or death sometimes.

The standard DIR answer of "the buddy team" could also be put forth, but I just don't buy it as the only solution for typical recreational divers.

I can compare it to BC's. DIR seems to want everyone in a BP/W, but would they rather see divers go without ANY BC rather than use the "sub-optimal" jacket model? I sure hope not. DIR is a system that is intended to be optimal, but too many people are not interested in making the commitment to "optimal" and would be satisfied with simply a decent or safer system. My pick-up truck does not have side impact air bags, but the truck is safe enough for me.
 
DIR is a system that is intended to be optimal, but too many people are not interested in making the commitment to "optimal" and would be satisfied with simply a decent or safer system. My pick-up truck does not have side impact air bags, but the truck is safe enough for me.

If you die in a side impact collision, will your friends say that perhaps a truck with side impact airbags might have made the difference for you?

Optimal vs "Good Enough" really is a fine line in some cases. And one that is usually only questioned when something catastrophic happens.



BTW, I'm sorry to hear about the loss of your friend.
 
Thanks for the reasonable post Dan. I see the logic and value in the DIR information. Still, for spearfisherman (and maybe photographers) the competative nature (and selfishness) precludes many of them from being good attentive buddies. Maybe some day DIR will recognize that a (slung?) pony bottle is the lesser of 2 or 3 evils put forth by the dive agencies???????

We lost another very experienced diver (a photog.) off Jupiter 2 days ago. No pony bottle; separated from her buddy during ascent, apparently within less than 50 feet of surface. Her boy friend recovered her body after a 24-hr soak. Both are friends of mine. We don't yet have a definitive answer, but I just have to wonder if even a 6 cu-ft pony bottle MIGHT have made a difference for her. As you are well aware, these are not esoteric issues, they can be the difference between life or death sometimes.

The standard DIR answer of "the buddy team" could also be put forth, but I just don't buy it as the only solution for typical recreational divers.

I can compare it to BC's. DIR seems to want everyone in a BP/W, but would they rather see divers go without ANY BC rather than use the "sub-optimal" jacket model? I sure hope not. DIR is a system that is intended to be optimal, but too many people are not interested in making the commitment to "optimal" and would be satisfied with simply a decent or safer system. My pick-up truck does not have side impact air bags, but the truck is safe enough for me.


Dumpster diver,
I spearfish alot myself, and George, Bill Mee and I used to do lots of lobster diving as well. When we would spearfish together, you would always have a buddy watching your back during the shooting and stringing or lift bagging of the fish---and until the spearfisherman resumes swimming, the buddies can't go anywhere anyway :)
Even before I ever met George or Bill, back when I used to dive on Frank's dive boat, and do Juno or Hole in the wall or places like this each weekend, the hunter/killers on Franks boat would commonly dive in buddy teams..and this was long before DIR. Even guys like Pat Frain ( Ultimate Spearguns) would be good buddies, on these dives. I think this is more of a personality thing--there are "people" who are very self involved, and who will not want to lose out on even once second of a shooting opportunity....and there are people who really do not care about their buddies. Maybe because our Jupiter and Juno dives tended to be more extreme than sites like the 50 foot Boynton ledges, it caused common sense to seep into our thick skulls, and helped induce real buddy behavior. Having 4 or 5 bulls following on a spearfishing dive, can also induce buddy diving behavior as well :) ...Anyway, I think diving with friends has a social component to it, that makes diving mre fun than diving solo. And I see it as worthwhile to be calling people ahead of time, to make sure I can maximize my fun for each weekend...this is just planning ahead...I call this DIR, you could call this just trying to guarantee your fun. The safety is a nice byproduct.

As to BC's vs wings....
DIR for recreational divers is not an all or none phenomenon. The idea is to begin a path to thinking about common sense issues, and not letting a dangerously stupid instructor or poor gear choice endanger your present or future diving.

With this in mind, if I am on a charter boat, and see a recreational diver clearly new, and trying to get better.....I may very well ignore the BC issue--hell, I used Scuba Pro stabs for years, Sea Quest before that, Atpacks before that, and just a harness with no BC before that---the BC is not the biggest deal for the new recreational diver..not even close. So I might even say, " Nice Scubapro BC.....but can I show you why you might not like the way the octo is stuffed into a holder, potentially making big problems for you and your buddy?" .....

Or, if on a charter boat, I witness two new divers buddies together, experience a rapid ascent due to OOA or low on air for one of them, then they will hear one of my stories from the old days about a low on air experience I had, and then the DIR solution--always knowing your buddies air supply, and it's as much your fault as it is theirs, if they run out or low....and the whole eye contact every few seconds, the basic DIR buddy behavior....
If the diver I see is swimming severely head up, and feet down, I will not start right in on the bp/wing issue if the diver has a decent BC....I will suggest how he/she can move weight around, and how easy it is to actually get horizontal in the water--and how extremely important this is....

Sure, I think a bp/wing is better, but any of us can dive well and safely on a Scubapro BC , on a 100 foot reef. And, we can be pretty damn DIR also....it is way more about the mindset, and how you configure the gear you have. The guy with the Stab jacket does NOT need to be dragging a 6 foot log pressure guage on the bottom ( I have actually seen one of these guys get caught by the boat when jumping in, and get hung up--it would have been hilarius, but we had to help him before we could laugh). The stab jacket wearer does not need the octo stuffing holders, they do not need heavy steel tanks, and there are many other basic configuration issues that will let them use most of DIR, and have a lot more safety and fun from their diving, because of it.

From your past posts, I know you have run into a few bad instructors in your time---for George and I, DIR had to get out in the late 90's because there were so many dangerous tech instructors--many of whom were terrible divers themselves, and catastrophically dangerous to students....We needed to get common sense out, to the students...the Internet made this possible, and while most of DIR had been figured out long before George and I ever arrived on the scene, the ideas needed to be put together, and the bad ideas dropped. As you see on the DIR III video, even George was not trying to make DIR all or nothing.

REgards,
Dan V
 
We lost another very experienced diver (a photog.) off Jupiter 2 days ago. No pony bottle; separated from her buddy during ascent, apparently within less than 50 feet of surface. Her boy friend recovered her body after a 24-hr soak. Both are friends of mine. We don't yet have a definitive answer, but I just have to wonder if even a 6 cu-ft pony bottle MIGHT have made a difference for her. As you are well aware, these are not esoteric issues, they can be the difference between life or death sometimes. .

My condolences to you on the loss of your friend. Hearing about this just makes me that much more certain that anytime my wife Sandra is diving in the more advanced depths or locations ( shooting picures) she will find it impossible to shake me from constant contact with her. And sometimes, it seems like a photographer buddy "is" trying to shake you--they can take off in a second, without warning.
Anyway, I was very sorry to hear about this.

Regards,
Dan V
 
More reasonable responses. You seem to be making the claim that a movement toward (rather than attainment of) DIR will improve safety and implementation of certain major DIR components can be succesful in improving safety and functionality.

I think I agree. For example, I am becoming more and more convinced that the application of a simple necklace mounting for the octopus (or pony bottle second stage, LOL) is a very practical and useful technique to improve safety. Yesterday I looked again at my buddies spare (steel) stage bottle with it's metal-to-metal connections.. just looking at it bugs the hell out of me.

As for our lost friend,,, it makes me question if it is worth continuing to dive, but yesterday as we searched for her body in 60 foor visibility (along the outer break in 125-150 ft) we had a beautiful dive with sharks, dozens of 300-400 lb jewfish, snappers, kingfish and all kinds of marine life. The dive just served to reinforce to me why she was (and the rest of us will continue to be) drawn to the sea. What a very weird dive, to be trying to disregard the beauty of the site and concentrate on the grim task at hand.
 
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