A Cert Card for everything, including how to tie your shoe...

[DCBC]

The guys that started PADI "got" the free market system. They saw that scuba training was not meeting the market needs, and they created a new training system that met those needs. Their new business model worked spectacularly well in making scuba accessable, and most divers today are divers because of the new training model that PADI invented.

PADI and the other agencies continue to change and innovate as technologies and markets change. That is a good thing. Business must continue to experiment with new products and new ideas. As with all businesses, they must evolve or die. And it is the consumer who will decide what is wanted and needed and affordable.

Yes Mike, with the intent of increasing diver equipment sales.

Like any industry leader, PADI gets its share of criticism. Your idea that PADI customers are not getting good value for their training dollar is easy to test: Just start your own training agency and offer a better deal.

Regardless of training agency, value is a matter of perspective. Some consider value becoming certified with the least amount of training possible, at the cheapest possible price. Others may consider value as being trained to a high level of competence. What the Student gets for his training dollar depends on the agency and the instructor.

In any event, the Student's not always in a good position to ascertain value when they sign-up to anyone's training program. All too often I fear it's done in ignorance.

 

[TSandM]

You know, I think in many ways I'm the poster child for the current system of training . . . I didn't have a huge, independent desire to dive in the first place. I signed up for a class because my husband wanted me to, and because I thought it might be fun. My vision was a dive or two on an Australian vacation trip . . . I didn't think any further than that. I wouldn't have signed up for a class that took too long, or cost too much; I think I probably paid as much as I was willing to do.

And that toehold on diving was enough of a taste that, five years later, I'm an active diver with a LOT of "specialty cards" and advanced certifications, and a whole bunch of dives in a lot of places. So, at least in my case, the PADI approach worked. Do what you have to to GET PEOPLE DIVING. They can find their own comfort level of training, once they've got their feet wet.

 

[Selchie in LB]

As a noobie I'll chime in here. I took the OW course on a condensed schedule, 2 weekends in a row due to my work schedule. The instructor offered the option of taking the AOW for minimal discount. I took advantage and signed up. My friends were saying it was too soon that I needed to get some dives under my weight belt and i should have waited. I am glad I did take the AOW right away. I did a couple of dives in between the courses and while excited I realized just how little I really knew. Thank goodness I had patient buddies. I was still fumbling with things. Navigation is still sort of mystery to me. I can check my compass, but unless I was with these buddies I would have had no way of knowing where I was. These divers did give me additional tips and advice but the biggest thing I have yet to figure out is buoyancy. On those in between course dives I was bumping along the bottom - totally over weighted - and when trying to compensate with the BCD corked just about every time only to be saved by the buddy grabbing me or finding something to hold onto. I'm glad too i did a deep dive. I know to respect the environment I'm in and hope to be prepared enough to handle any situation that arises.

Having said all that I doubt I will ever take a camera class or fish ID class because there are plenty of divers to help with those tasks. For some of the other classes it really is pick and choose. For me it has been about level of comfort and being able to hone my skills without taking away from other divers time on a dive when they want to go look at things and take pictures. I hope that I remember to as patient with a noobie once I get to the point where it is effortless.

 

[wrybosome]

Those rock boots can be a bitch to tie underwater.

Until I take the tying class I'm sticking with rock sandals.

As much as we dislike it, it takes these salomi-sliced courses to attract the youngsters. Gen-X and the Millenium Generation just don't have the self-discipline nor patience to sit through (a) longer class(es).

:mooner: Nah, it just takes much longer classes to get things across to baby boomers...our young minds are fresh.


I met a diver the other day who had done many of the specialty certs. She was happy with them and more power to her. If you learn something and it keeps your interest up when you can't dive then it's a good thing. I would consider taking an UW photo class, since I know less than nothing about it.

 

[Mike Boswell]

Yes Mike, with the intent of increasing diver equipment sales.



Regardless of training agency, value is a matter of perspective. Some consider value becoming certified with the least amount of training possible, at the cheapest possible price. Others may consider value as being trained to a high level of competence. What the Student gets for his training dollar depends on the agency and the instructor.

In any event, the Student's not always in a good position to ascertain value when they sign-up to anyone's training program. All too often I fear it's done in ignorance.

Hey Wayne,

Hope all is well with you and that you are loving the new job.

The goal of better training and better divers is something we share. I am glad that some agencies and instructors push that agenda. More power to them, and I wish them nothing but success!

As to the OP's basic premise, I note that CMAS is also offering specialty courses.

 

[Jax]

You are such an idiot.

Name calling is against the ToS, don't you know.

What makes you a genius in the low-density sports arena? or in the training arena? or in the educational environment?

Edit: Loves it when people lack the courage of their convictions.

 

[mikemill]

You know, I think in many ways I'm the poster child for the current system of training . . . I didn't have a huge, independent desire to dive in the first place. I signed up for a class because my husband wanted me to, and because I thought it might be fun. My vision was a dive or two on an Australian vacation trip . . . I didn't think any further than that. I wouldn't have signed up for a class that took too long, or cost too much; I think I probably paid as much as I was willing to do.

And that toehold on diving was enough of a taste that, five years later, I'm an active diver with a LOT of "specialty cards" and advanced certifications, and a whole bunch of dives in a lot of places. So, at least in my case, the PADI approach worked. Do what you have to to GET PEOPLE DIVING. They can find their own comfort level of training, once they've got their feet wet.

One thing I would love to see is more use of Discover Scuba. Get people in and give them a taste. If they don't like it then they can leave without much lose (time, money for classes & equipment, etc). If they enjoy it I can see them being a lot more excited about it.

 

[Jax]

Name calling is against the ToS, don't you know.

What makes you a genius in the low-density sports arena? or in the training arena? or in the educational environment?

Edit: Loves it when people lack the courage of their convictions.

But in case anyone else is interested:

The Gen Y Attention Span: Does it Exist?? | The Next Great Generation

Coaching Generation X

Neil Postman writes in his book, "Amusing ourselves to Death" that
the attention span of humans was considerably longer years ago. The
specific example he uses in his book is that of the Lincoln-Douglas
debates in the 1800's which were literally read from paper and lasted
for hours. Postman notes that amazingly, the people stayed, listened
and paid attention. Today, I doubt we could expect to read any
statement for 8 - 10 hours and have an audience of people stay in the
room, let alone stay focused.

Help4Teachers.com
Dr. Kathie Nunley's Layered Curriculum Web Site for Educators

 

[mikemill]

Name calling is against the ToS, don't you know.

What makes you a genius in the low-density sports arena? or in the training arena? or in the educational environment?

Edit: Loves it when people lack the courage of their convictions.

Alright, was trying to be the better person and remove my mistake. But since you don't want to let it go:

You are an idiot because you generalized your perspective onto an entire group of people. Might as well said that white men can't jump, black men can't swim, or that Jews are penny pinchers. It is the same level of idiocy.

Depending on the definitions used I fall into either Gen-X or Gen-Y. I've sat in classes for 10+ hours, sat at a desk working on a problem for hours on end, and if 4 years in the Marines taught me anything it was discipline. My peers are some of the hardest working, focused, and determined people I have meet. Quite a few of the baby boomers I deal with are just measuring time and aren't really that productive (it'll be interesting to see if my peers do that also).

During my childhood education I had to deal with a system that was built for the learning style that most people don't have (as their primary style) and that was far too slow. I was actually fortunate enough to get kicked out of my high school (for not attending) and placed in an alternative high school where the teachers and administrator let me learn in my style. I would spend the entire day just consuming knowledge even on subjects I didn't care for. Instead of one or two sentence answers I would give several paragraphs and even explore the deeper reasons.

I've spent time tutoring people in math (which a lot of people hate) and programming (which a lot of the students didn't want to take but had to for their majors). I learned that people really pay attention when you make things relevant to them. And if anything that is the real thing that has changed. People want relevance and if it isn't relevant then they don't care.

During my time tutoring I had people take a learning style assessment (so I knew how to best approach the materials with them). Very few had auditory as a style and even fewer as a primary. The most popular one was kinesthetic and I think the current style of scuba instruction feeds that. It has been awhile but I believe my observations have been shown to be true for the majority of the population.

Now, I've wasted enough time here and need to get back to work.

 

[Jax]

You are an idiot because you generalized your perspective onto an entire group of people. Might as well said that white men can't jump, black men can't swim, or that Jews are penny pinchers. It is the same level of idiocy.

Depending on the definitions used I fall into either Gen-X or Gen-Y. I've sat in classes for 10+ hours, sat at a desk working on a problem for hours on end, and if 4 years in the Marines taught me anything it was discipline. My peers are some of the hardest working, focused, and determined people I have meet. Quite a few of the baby boomers I deal with are just measuring time and aren't really that productive (it'll be interesting to see if my peers do that also).

So, because the "generalizations" (so called because they apply generally) don't apply to YOU (you who gladly left the "general" education system), I'm an idiot? And I guess that all the educators that wrote the articles are also idiots?

Non sequitur.