What to do about HORRIBLE instructor?

[Kevin Carlisle]

I often use AOW students as helpers in my class. They never get put in charge of any other student, and they are never used to adjust ratios. However, they get to repeat the exercises they already have learned as well as get more time in the water with me. I usually do a private lesson with them in the pool covering a variety of issues AFTER the OW students have left. They sign the same waivers and I think it does them good.

Like Kevin, I have seen instructors break standards and use their old students AS dive masters. I have also seen them leave an entire class in the water in order to go to the restroom. If I didn't have a class in that spring myself, I would have offered in to help.

Not a bad idea, gives them more time in the water which is what all students need. The one I saw, the OW diver had students in the spring doing drills while the instructor was sitting in the shade 200ft from the water.

 

[The Chairman]

Not a bad idea, gives them more time in the water which is what all students need. The one I saw, the OW diver had students in the spring doing drills while the instructor was sitting in the shade 200ft from the water.

Yeah, that makes my blood boil.

Other actions that I deem to be highly unprofessional and reportable:

Cursing
Verbal/emotional abuse
Impatience
Inappropriate dive sites
Using overhead environments
Exceeding ratios

Lesser actions that while they are not reportable, make for a lousy instructor.

Wasting time
Less than enthusiastic sessions
Being less than an ideal example
Self aggrandizement (too many war stories)
Inability to evolve with new gear/techniques

 

[Kevin Carlisle]

Yeah, that makes my blood boil.

Other actions that I deem to be highly unprofessional:

Cursing
Verbal/emotional abuse
Impatience
Inappropriate dive sites
Using overhead environments
Exceeding ratios

Lesser actions that while they are not reportable, make for a lousy instructor.

Wasting time
Less than enthusiastic sessions
Being less than an ideal example
Self aggrandizement (too many war stories)
Inability to evolve with new gear/techniques

I agree 100%. I also saw an OW instructor have his students remove masks under the ledge of the caven at Vortex. No excuse for that.

 

[doctormike]

However, posting a review here, when this place is not intended for reviews and the person is also a member, just seems like a bad idea, I do not find it appropriate and I'm guessing the board moderators would not appreciate that either.

Thanks to everyone who helped.... I'm done here.

Well, I don't know if you have really stormed off in a huff as your last post indicated, but I would just like to make the point that most of us were trying to get you to give details about what happened, and not to identify the instructor. I'm not sure why you continue to imply that giving details and identifying the instructor are the same things, but you seem to have mentioned that a few times.

In any case, I can't speak for the other moderators, but I personally would actually very much appreciate a good writeup of exactly what happened (identifying details not necessary). You will find many other threads here where posters have been thanked for providing detailed reports of problems such as yours, accidents, near misses, etc... It is actually an excellent way of learning from each other, and preventing similar problems in the future.

 

[Dr Wu]

You dont think that happens?

No idea.

But the only part of this story I believe is the OP took a scuba class.

 

[DBailey]

Here is my advise:

1. For the class that YOU took, send your complaint to that agency. While the instructor (according to your comments) is able to teach for two agencies, you should only complain to agency that he was directly representing during your class.

2. Take some time to list out all of your complaints. I would try to note if the item was unsafe or rude.

3. Try to paint a good picture of the site, conditions, and people. How many students were there? How many instructors and assistants were there? Was there anyone else helping (boat captain, shore support, etc.)?

4. I would spend most of the complaint letter addressing the items that you felt were unsafe and just summarize the rude items towards the end.

5. For the unsafe items, describe them to the best of your ability given your point of view. For example, you mentioned the instructor used OW divers as assistants. That is a rather broad statement. In the letter, exactly describe what the "assistants" did during the dives.

6. For the rude items, describe them as exactly as possible. For a CS/QA department there is a huge difference betweem "He called the students pussies" and "After Steve couldn't complete the mask skill, he called him a pussy once we got back to the surface." Another example, "He yelled at all of us" and "The group drifted apart on the surface, at first he yelled at us to get us back together, then he continued to berate us once we were safe."

Once you have the letter completed, set is aside. Come back a few hours later and edit it to remove some of the emotion and rely on the facts and your observations.

 

[Jax]

I took an Open Water course with an instructor that was absolutely horrible. This person should not be teaching PERIOD. It was not safe, he was mean, offensive, demeaning, not patient, and at times not competent. These were the feelings shared by all of the students in the course. What if anything can be done? Do NAUI and PADI do anything when they get these types of complaints?

Wow. As a new diver and member here, I am a bit confused by the reactions I am getting...

1.) As I stated, I am not looking to bash him. I was only looking for advice on what can be done. Perhaps there is a central rating system just like there is for restaurants, college professors, etc. where I could rate him...

2.) I never said I was looking for "sympathy"

3.) Is it really appropriate for me to name the instructor here on the forums??? Seriously? Now if I did that I would expect some of the responses I received. Not from asking general questions while trying to do my best to protect the identity of someone that may be a member here...

Geez...

Look, you guys are either not reading, can't read or are being ridiculous.

I am presenting certain pieces of info because I am NOT trying to bash the instructor publicly and I am NOT asking you to put on your detective hats to solve some mystery. I am not asking you to determine if the instructor is fit to be an instructor, I simply asked to find out what type of recourse or options are available for reporting an instructor. END OF STORY.

I do not feel it is appropriate to name the person. I could do this, though that was not my intention. It was to find out what could be done.

As far as holes in the story or smoke and mirrors -- perhaps if I was bad mouthing a specific person I could understand the expectation for details and facts, though I never mentioned anyone by name!!!! There is no body that has to defend his reputation.

Please read before you make comments that don't make sense and if the fact that I am not naming this person and providing facts bothers you so much, don't read the thread!

Amazing. I read through these three pages and found that only two people (below) came even close to answering the OP's questions.

(1) What if anything can be done?

Fred, you can contact the agencies by email or mail and request they investigate:

To Contact NAUI, Go to NAUI Worldwide Contact Us. There is an on-line form. Recommend a subject of either "Ethics Quality Assurance" or "Standards & Policies".

Or, write a letter to the address on the same page.

To Contact PADI, send an email to QA@padi.com, or write to an address as listed on Contact Us.

(2) Do NAUI and PADI do anything when they get these types of complaints?

I cannot answer this question, but I think the instructors in this thread have indicated the agencies will investigate and take action as warranted.

DBailey has some good advice on how to write your complaint. Be sure to state facts as facts, and your opinion as opinion.

What you do is you write to the certification agency with details of your situation including dates, times, happenings, names, etc. They will open an internal investigation and will work to get a resolution. The goal is two fold: 1. to get you happy and in a positive direction. 2. to remediate the instructor should it be necessary.

Here is the PADI flow chart as to how these things are handled:
http://www.padi.com/padi/common/pdfs/footer/00143_QASummary.pdf

•Email QA@padi.com to report a Quality Management issue (compliments or complaints).

Good luck

Here is my advise:

1. For the class that YOU took, send your complaint to that agency. While the instructor (according to your comments) is able to teach for two agencies, you should only complain to agency that he was directly representing during your class.

2. Take some time to list out all of your complaints. I would try to note if the item was unsafe or rude.

3. Try to paint a good picture of the site, conditions, and people. How many students were there? How many instructors and assistants were there? Was there anyone else helping (boat captain, shore support, etc.)?

4. I would spend most of the complaint letter addressing the items that you felt were unsafe and just summarize the rude items towards the end.

5. For the unsafe items, describe them to the best of your ability given your point of view. For example, you mentioned the instructor used OW divers as assistants. That is a rather broad statement. In the letter, exactly describe what the "assistants" did during the dives.

6. For the rude items, describe them as exactly as possible. For a CS/QA department there is a huge difference betweem "He called the students pussies" and "After Steve couldn't complete the mask skill, he called him a pussy once we got back to the surface." Another example, "He yelled at all of us" and "The group drifted apart on the surface, at first he yelled at us to get us back together, then he continued to berate us once we were safe."

Once you have the letter completed, set is aside. Come back a few hours later and edit it to remove some of the emotion and rely on the facts and your observations.

 

[doctormike]

Here is my advise:

1. For the class that YOU took, send your complaint to that agency. While the instructor (according to your comments) is able to teach for two agencies, you should only complain to agency that he was directly representing during your class.

2. Take some time to list out all of your complaints. I would try to note if the item was unsafe or rude.

3. Try to paint a good picture of the site, conditions, and people. How many students were there? How many instructors and assistants were there? Was there anyone else helping (boat captain, shore support, etc.)?

4. I would spend most of the complaint letter addressing the items that you felt were unsafe and just summarize the rude items towards the end.

5. For the unsafe items, describe them to the best of your ability given your point of view. For example, you mentioned the instructor used OW divers as assistants. That is a rather broad statement. In the letter, exactly describe what the "assistants" did during the dives.

6. For the rude items, describe them as exactly as possible. For a CS/QA department there is a huge difference betweem "He called the students pussies" and "After Steve couldn't complete the mask skill, he called him a pussy once we got back to the surface." Another example, "He yelled at all of us" and "The group drifted apart on the surface, at first he yelled at us to get us back together, then he continued to berate us once we were safe."

Once you have the letter completed, set is aside. Come back a few hours later and edit it to remove some of the emotion and rely on the facts and your observations.

Good advice! And I would add...

7. Post your letter here once you send it, with the identifying information removed.

After all, we're all interested now..!

 

[doctormike]

Amazing. I read through these three pages and found that only two people (below) came even close to answering the OP's questions.

Jax, you are right... we all got a bit off topic and many of us didn't directly address the OP's question. In our defense, I think that most people would agree that the way that it was asked invited this discussion. After all, he didn't just post "Hi, everyone. I'm looking for the best way to report a problem with a PADI instructor". Drama does breed drama...!

So sorry if any feelings were hurt.

And I'm sure that I'll be accused of being snarky, but I just can't resist posting this...



Safe diving, everyone..!

Mike

 

[Vorin]

7. Post your letter here once you send it, with the identifying information removed.

Why remove the identifying information? Would it not be important to those considering diving to know who they may want to stay away from? I wish I had research instructors before we signed up for our first class.