Master scuba diver - why the negativity?

[Gombessa]

"Master Diver" is SOOOOO offensive, yet "Dive Master" offends nobody?

Oh, you don't have to throw a splitfin very far to hit the mask on that forehead.

But head to head, maybe it has to do with the term "xxxx-master" being generally accepted as describing the role (the divemaster is the guy/gal who oversees the dive) as opposed to a measure of the quality/skill of the person being described. Now, if it were called a "master divemaster," the scuba world would probably implode with passive-aggressive rage.

 

[DiverGirl1972]

Personally, I couldn't care less what anyone else thinks - I am looking forward to finishing my rescue diver course and get my master scuba diver certification. Not because I feel the card somehow makes me a more competent diver or that I will suddenly garner the respect of everyone on SB It simply represents the completion of a goal I set for myself. Nothing more, nothing less.

Who cares what the title implies??? The only people that may be misled by the title are those who don't dive. Does it really matter if someone not involved in the activity of scuba is impressed with a MSD title? The rest of us take it for what it is; proof that someone has continued on with their scuba education beyond their open water certification.

By the way, I just love ScubaBoard

 

[DaleC]

My goal is to dive, not to get a card that says I dive.

Perhaps the Master Diver has mastered some 'basics' across a variety of diving disciplines/specialties?

It reminds me of that scene in "the Incredibles" when Syndrome plans to make everybody a hero so that nobody's a hero... What defines mastery? That's the crux of the debate (if there is one). To my mind a master recreational diver would have demonstable knowledge and skill in the major aspects of recreational scuba diving. Nobody thinks such a designation spans cave or any other form of diving. Can we really say that is the case after 50 dives and five "weekend" specialties? If so, what do we call the people who really do have that working knowledge.

While it is quite easy to praise the pursuit of education there is a very real danger with being saddled by a label before you have matured into it. You can either allow it to go to your head (and close you off from having the humility to learn) or cause you to shy away from situations that challenge you for fear of appearing inept (and deprive yourself of the opportunity to learn).

For some, the attainment of the "title" of MSD can be more of a detriment than a value.

 

[Crush]

For some, the attainment of the "title" of MSD can be more of a detriment than a value.

I appreciate what you posted and I am not saying that you are wrong. However, having an MSD is not a scarlet letter carved in one's chest. If you have an MSD and pursued it for the sake of a guided education, nothing precludes you from showing your AOW and Nitrox card to the boat DM instead of your MSD card.

 

[Kern]

If I become a master diver, can I have some slave divers?

 

[DevonDiver]

From a dive centre manager perspective, I've never had a bad experience with any customer who has turned up with the MSD card. I've never encountered any ego that came with the qualification - perhaps the ego issue only exists online?

Working in the industry, I see the MSD certification shows that the diver concerned has spent considerable time, effort and money on their training and development. It shows that they have a positive mindset towards continously improving the skills and experience. I don't know how that can be percieved as a bad thing.

So what if someone wants to 'collect badges'. That's just another aspect of the myriad reasons why people enjoy scuba diving. There's often far more ego involved when someone touts a tech card, cave cert or an expensive DSLR rig. I've encountered lots of Divemasters with ego issues...and they were just badge collecting too....and all of those certifications and past-times are just other aspects of the many reasons people enjoy scuba.

For those thread contributors who feel so negative about the MSD certification - perhaps some self-analysis of their viewpoints would reveal a little ego issues also. At the end of the day, it's easy to let ego lead us into those sort of beliefs. It's ego that leads us to belittle something that we see as 'beneath us'.

 

[Spady]

I'm not a master-diver. Does PADI issue a card for being a master-BATOR?

 

[BoltSnap]

From a dive centre manager perspective, I've never had a bad experience with any customer who has turned up with the MSD card. I've never encountered any ego that came with the qualification - perhaps the ego issue only exists online?

Working in the industry, I see the MSD certification shows that the diver concerned has spent considerable time, effort and money on their training and development. It shows that they have a positive mindset towards continously improving the skills and experience. I don't know how that can be percieved as a bad thing.

So what if someone wants to 'collect badges'. That's just another aspect of the myriad reasons why people enjoy scuba diving. There's often far more ego involved when someone touts a tech card, cave cert or an expensive DSLR rig. I've encountered lots of Divemasters with ego issues...and they were just badge collecting too....and all of those certifications and past-times are just other aspects of the many reasons people enjoy scuba.

For those thread contributors who feel so negative about the MSD certification - perhaps some self-analysis of their viewpoints would reveal a little ego issues also. At the end of the day, it's easy to let ego lead us into those sort of beliefs. It's ego that leads us to belittle something that we see as 'beneath us'.

Well said Andy!!

In fact, most of the SB active members have very healthy egos. Nothing wrong with that at all. It is a problem with ego gets in the way of person's receptiveness to new ideas and/or them insisting on following procedures that are not safe or out of date.

For the NAUI folks, our motto is "Safety through Education" and if that means collecting badges on the way, so be it.

Let's go diving!

 

[ZenDiver.3D]

If I become a master diver, can I have some slave divers?

If you can answer that question,- "Why can't I own a Canadian?"....

From a dive centre manager perspective, I've never had a bad experience with any customer who has turned up with the MSD card. I've never encountered any ego that came with the qualification - perhaps the ego issue only exists online?
For those thread contributors who feel so negative about the MSD certification - perhaps some self-analysis of their viewpoints would reveal a little ego issues also. At the end of the day, it's easy to let ego lead us into those sort of beliefs. It's ego that leads us to belittle something that we see as 'beneath us'.

Nah. I have one that stands out. This MSD came to dive with us on a wreck we have. We only allow really experienced divers on this dive. It is not too deep, just 37 meters, but the currents are ripping and if you get blown off the wreck, you end up in the shipping lanes. So.
This guy came and asked to do it. We talked about his dive experience. He explained that he was a MSD. With over 350 dives in all types of conditions. Of course he could handle strong currents. Well, the lead guy on that dive said OK. Not a big deal.
We were having a fun day for our DM's and some close friends and customers. This particular guy was the third one down the line. He got to about 15 meters, his eyes blew up, and he hit his elevator button hard, we had 4 of our guys behind him getting a hand on him, as he fought them. The last guy was dumping his purges and holding him to a safer speed of ascent and went up with him, holding the line so as not to get ripped out to sea. When we all got back, the guy was still pissed that we kept him from being a rocket ship.
He then told us that he had fudged a little. He had 350ish dives. All in crystal clear non-current carribean waters. But he was a master diver and should have been able to handle anything.... This was his rationale for lying. He hit the low vis and the current pull and lost his mind.

This is just the most extreme that I have seen. Of course, I have listened to the bragging on boats by MSD's, DM's, Rescue divers, and aow's. It is interesting how a little knowledge makes some people experts. I smile, and say, "How interesting. Cool."
Unless they say something completely crazy and dangerous, I leave them alone.

But I do see where the negativity can come from. Some like to impress the newbs with their exalted status. Not all, by any means. But enough to give a reputation.

 

[DevonDiver]

I guess the moral of that story is not to take an unknown quantity into a high-risk, high-stress diving situation.

Having run dive center's myself, I find that you have to have a firm policy on pre-assessing divers before visiting certain sites. Without exception, I have found that the divers who are capable are the ones with sufficient experience and judgement to accept why these policies are adhered to. The ones who argue or feel that they are 'too good' or 'too qualified' to require a check-out dive are the ones who later display bad judgement in other issues.

I agree though... that qualification/status can lead to judgement errors, where divers don't want to lose face by admitting (to others or even to themselves) that a dive is beyond their skill or experience level. The higher the qualification/status level, the more self-induced pressure there is...