What if...? Dive Planning & Trust Me Dives

[Cave Diver]

Four went through, two did not.

Ok. The answer is essentially the same, but the clarification helps on a few points. Lets see what the new divers have to say and I'll give an opinion on it after a while.

 

[BluewaterSail]

Looking again at those dark swim-throughs mentioned above . . .

Spousal unit A hang out on ScubaBoard and is completely convinced that you don't go through a swim-through you cannot see the exit of . . .

Spousal unit B believes, "hey, the DM won't take my somewhere I could get hurt."


So, A watches his/her buddy B follow the DM into a dark cave-ish swim through.

What should A do?

I think that A should try to convince B not to enter. But once he is gone, she should not follow. We all need to make these judgements for ourselves. That 2 people stayed behind makes it even easier to resist.

B is acting incorrectly on 2 accounts. First, they swam away from their buddy. They should have been paying attention that their buddy was not following. And secondly, they should not have done something beyond their training.

 

[rhwestfall]

This "swim through" is a true to life scenario that played out on my first dives after being certified 20+ years ago. Even after discussing it with the "insta-buddy" I was assigned on the trip, and even though I had told him that I wasn't going to go in/through there, he did.

I watched him swim in, I surfaced, climbed on the boat, and waited for the group to return. Neither I nor the boat captain/DM (they didn't dive with us on all the dives) was too pleased with my "buddy", and was more than understanding and appreciative of what I had done.

Bottom line - anyone, and any time can say "no mas", thumb a dive, etc. Compliance with the request is not optional, its obligatory!

 

[soltari675]

These are a little harder questions.

* What would you do if you reached your agreed upon turnaround pressure and your buddy or the DM pushed on with the dive (rather than turning around)?
Depends. If the agreed turnaround sooner than I normally would, I might stay a little longer. But once I reached what I know to be my safe pressure limit, I would immediately get my buddy's attention and thumb up. Whether they liked it or not. I am not ok with going OOA.

* What would you do if the DM leading your boat dive went into a cave or other overhead environment?
I would signal I am not ok with it if it was not in the plans. I really don't know what to do in caves at all and simply would not go. If my buddy went anyway, I might wait a few minutes for them to realize I really meant it, I am not going in there, and then if they didn't come back, I would surface and let the boat people know. So someone with more experience could go check on them.


* What would you do if your buddy inexplicably descended deeper (100+ fsw) than the two of you had discussed during pre-dive planning?
Well, if I knew he was experienced and I was comfortable, I would get their attention, show them our depth and make sure they knew what they were doing. If we both signal ok, I would go. If I was not comfortable, or say I can't go that deep either from DCS chance or nitrox limits, I would get his attention, show him the depth and thumb to ascend a bit.

* What would you do if your buddy wanted to go diving but you weren't comfortable with the dive conditions (high surf, current, low vis, rough seas, etc.)?
Suggest another location or suggest another day. I wouldn't go. If I am not comfortable, I am going to have anxiety and mess something up that could get us both in danger.

* What would you do if your buddy gave you "the thumb" on the dive but everything seemed like it was OK?
I would stay with them and ascend. When we were safe on the boat or shore, I would ask what happened and if they want to try again or call it. I would not ask someone uncomfortable to dive, since I would not like it either.

 

[flots am]

Well, since you've quoted me, I'd like to answer. First, when I said it's situational, it has nothing to do with whether the DM is a nice guy or not. It's whether I've done enough diving with the individual to be able to make a judgement call.

If the DM had "judgement" he wouldn't be taking OW divers into an overhead environment..

That, coupled with both of us knowing what I have left for gas. Second, while I'm new to SCUBA, I'm not to SCBA. For over twenty years I've been doing, and leading, trust me dives of a sort every time I've gone interior on a structure fire. You could not know that because I've filled out blessed little of my profile, but it does colour my judgement in regard to these questions.

The difference is that you're going in to a fire with guys that know how to get out, and get you out, and you have equipment that is designed for using inside of burning buildings.

OW divers in a swim-through have neither the training or equipment to safely manage an emergency in an overhead environment, and can easily become trapped.

All Open Water training is based on diving in "Open Water" where the surface is easily available. A swimthough such as those in Cozumel and elsewhere are overhead dives, and narrow overheads, at that and none of the emergency procedures taught on OW class are workable because sharing air, ditching weights and or ascending with a buddy are all impossible in a single-file overhead.

flots.

 

[Cave Diver]

Looking again at those dark swim-throughs mentioned above . . .

Spousal unit A hang out on ScubaBoard and is completely convinced that you don't go through a swim-through you cannot see the exit of . . .

Spousal unit B believes, "hey, the DM won't take my somewhere I could get hurt."


So, A watches his/her buddy B follow the DM into a dark cave-ish swim through.

What should A do?

Since there hasn't been much response to this, I'll throw in my 2 cents.

As I see it, Diver A has four choices:
1) Follow their buddy and the DM into the swim through against their better judgment.
2) Ascend slightly for a better view and follow along over the top of the swim through and rejoin the group at the other end.
3) Call the dive and head for the surface.
4) Decide to do their own dive and finish it solo.

My suggestion would likely be #2. Both divers are certified and despite all the discussion about always stay with your buddy that is prevalent here, Diver A is unlikely to be in any real danger being on their own for a couple of minutes. By ascending slightly, they will be in a better position to see both ends of the swim through so they know when the DM and B emerge.

Back on the surface there should be a discussion between A & B regarding the incident.

 

[Cave Diver]

Here is a new scenario for consideration.

What if the current picked up during a dive and you were unable to return to the anchor line?

Loosely based on a dive on the Spiegal Grove in the Keys.
Max depth of the site to the sand ~140'
Structure near the middle ~65'
Max depth of your dive 90', current dive time 16 minutes, 1800 psi remaining
Boat anchored at the bow during slack current. You were near the stern, approximately 500' from the anchor line when current picked up. The current is strong enough that facing directly into it causes the purge on your reg to free flow. You don't have enough air, or NDL time remaining to fight your way back to the anchor line at depth. If you ascend shallower to conserve air, you're going to get blown off the wreck. You have a DSMB and a 100' reel.

How would you handle this situation and what considerations would you take into account.

 

[rhwestfall]

:dropmouth: :nailbiter: :sos:

 

[fjpatrum]

Here is a new scenario for consideration.

What if the current picked up during a dive and you were unable to return to the anchor line?

Loosely based on a dive on the Spiegal Grove in the Keys.
Max depth of the site to the sand ~140'
Structure near the middle ~65'
Max depth of your dive 90', current dive time 16 minutes, 1800 psi remaining
Boat anchored at the bow during slack current. You were near the stern, approximately 500' from the anchor line when current picked up. The current is strong enough that facing directly into it causes the purge on your reg to free flow. You don't have enough air, or NDL time remaining to fight your way back to the anchor line at depth. If you ascend shallower to conserve air, you're going to get blown off the wreck. You have a DSMB and a 100' reel.

How would you handle this situation and what considerations would you take into account.

Shoot the DSMB from depth and start ascending diagonally to boat across the current such that as I'm blown from the wreck the boat can see me but I'm still trying to move in the correct direction. Diagonal movement should help reduce chances of freeflow, but wouldn't just looking down or turning around and "swimming backwards" with occasional glances for direction correction do the same thing?

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Here is a new scenario for consideration.

What if the current picked up during a dive and you were unable to return to the anchor line?

Loosely based on a dive on the Spiegal Grove in the Keys.
Max depth of the site to the sand ~140'
Structure near the middle ~65'
Max depth of your dive 90', current dive time 16 minutes, 1800 psi remaining
Boat anchored at the bow during slack current. You were near the stern, approximately 500' from the anchor line when current picked up. The current is strong enough that facing directly into it causes the purge on your reg to free flow. You don't have enough air, or NDL time remaining to fight your way back to the anchor line at depth. If you ascend shallower to conserve air, you're going to get blown off the wreck. You have a DSMB and a 100' reel.

How would you handle this situation and what considerations would you take into account.

Sounds like a dive I did in the Channel Islands last year ... do Florida dive ops really take new divers out to dive sites like that?

... Bob (Grateful Diver)