Wingy
Contributor
Hike are you just quoting airfare on PNG at approx $2000USD because I find it difficult to imagine how that could be done including anything but just the flights to Moresby?
List of dive destinations to not go to...
- Thread starter CAPTAIN SINBAD
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It's grossly overestimated, but arguing just that one number would give credibility to any of the other numbers he's pulled together. Ultimately there is no standardization in that list. If the OP had said, "Here's what it takes to do 20 dives in 7 days with food, lodging, airfare, transport and board in each place" we'd have somewhere to start from.
DiveShopBarbie
Registered
I'm not sure which angle this list is taking. If you are writing about the most expensive dive locations from your opinion, some of these are right but not all. Many of the best dive deals I've found are for the Caribbean and Hawaii. And expensive locations are expensive for a reason - you get more out of a single dive in Galapagos, Belize or in Roatan than you do out of 10 dives in your local quarry. Certain Caribbean islands are wildly cheap, and countries in Central America sitting on the Caribbean sea even more so.
To put places on your "don't dive list" that are the largest and healthiest barrier reefs in the world (Meso-American - Belize, Honduras, etc. and Great Barrier) is bizarre to me - even from a strictly value perspective, you see more, experience more, and can go to more diverse dive sites in on trip in these locations due to the nature of the reefs and creatures. Also, Galapagos? Yes, it is expensive. But you cannot see the same things in the Cocos Islands or any other location for that matter that you can see in Galapagos - that's one of the many things that makes it so scientifically significant, is that there are creatures that have adapted to behaviors specific to these islands and no where else, and creatures that exist no where else in the world.
I think it's a fine idea to suggest places where you may not be getting the best value for your dollar, or even dive sites that are over rated, but to pick places with the most diverse creatures, healthy reefs and unique animal behavior and siting opportunities probably isn't the best way to approach it.
I'd be very interested to see your places TO dive list.
---------- Post added September 16th, 2013 at 12:20 PM ----------
Also - in response to the Thailand vs Belize "discussion," let's consider that from the east coast, you can go to Belize more often and easier, and get more diving days in. You cannot feasibly go to Thailand for 5 days, and lose more time to air travel than you would to Belize. One poster mentioned this - and it is another reason many have go to Belize before Thailand. If I have a long weekend to five days to go on a dive trip, going to Thailand wouldn't cross my mind. The Caribbean would because it's a) closer, b) cheaper flights, c) cheap dive lodges, d) beautiful, healthy reefs with plenty of diversity, e) quality dive operations, f) more diving time (due to losing about two days traveling to Thailand on the VERY, very short side, and that means more expensive flights), etc. etc.
To put places on your "don't dive list" that are the largest and healthiest barrier reefs in the world (Meso-American - Belize, Honduras, etc. and Great Barrier) is bizarre to me - even from a strictly value perspective, you see more, experience more, and can go to more diverse dive sites in on trip in these locations due to the nature of the reefs and creatures. Also, Galapagos? Yes, it is expensive. But you cannot see the same things in the Cocos Islands or any other location for that matter that you can see in Galapagos - that's one of the many things that makes it so scientifically significant, is that there are creatures that have adapted to behaviors specific to these islands and no where else, and creatures that exist no where else in the world.
I think it's a fine idea to suggest places where you may not be getting the best value for your dollar, or even dive sites that are over rated, but to pick places with the most diverse creatures, healthy reefs and unique animal behavior and siting opportunities probably isn't the best way to approach it.
I'd be very interested to see your places TO dive list.
---------- Post added September 16th, 2013 at 12:20 PM ----------
Also - in response to the Thailand vs Belize "discussion," let's consider that from the east coast, you can go to Belize more often and easier, and get more diving days in. You cannot feasibly go to Thailand for 5 days, and lose more time to air travel than you would to Belize. One poster mentioned this - and it is another reason many have go to Belize before Thailand. If I have a long weekend to five days to go on a dive trip, going to Thailand wouldn't cross my mind. The Caribbean would because it's a) closer, b) cheaper flights, c) cheap dive lodges, d) beautiful, healthy reefs with plenty of diversity, e) quality dive operations, f) more diving time (due to losing about two days traveling to Thailand on the VERY, very short side, and that means more expensive flights), etc. etc.
eelnoraa
Contributor
I think choosing a vacation destination or diving destination based on price and any measureable quality is just not how vacation should be. The big part and the most important part is the experience and enjoyment. Don't get me wrong, I have been to Thailand and I love Similan diving, and I will go back again. But given a chance, I will sure pick Great Barrier Reef or Palau or Belize ... places I have never been to.
One analogy to this is car shopping. If every one is looking for the cheapest, most reliable, most fuel economy, most practical car, then there will be no market for Mecedez, BMW, Porshce .... no market for SUV or 2 door sport cars. This is certainly not the case. For a dive vacation, being able to do the most dives for the lowest cost is nice. I am certainly that person when I was in college. Now with family, I do value a lot creature comfort. I want to be able to enjoy all the none diving time (even on a LOB) as well as the diving part.
One analogy to this is car shopping. If every one is looking for the cheapest, most reliable, most fuel economy, most practical car, then there will be no market for Mecedez, BMW, Porshce .... no market for SUV or 2 door sport cars. This is certainly not the case. For a dive vacation, being able to do the most dives for the lowest cost is nice. I am certainly that person when I was in college. Now with family, I do value a lot creature comfort. I want to be able to enjoy all the none diving time (even on a LOB) as well as the diving part.
robint
Contributor
Captain Sinbad - I find your whole premise insulting. To think that you can paint the world of diving with a brush of black or white, go or stay away, is quite silly and shallow.
Number 1: Every place is not the same day to day, prices at every destination vary greatly depending on services offered, and airfare from different destinations vary greatly even day to day.
Number 2: Reading about "coral species" and "fish species" from books again is getting you. Stop it. You cannot tell the difference between 50 different kinds of star coral without a microscope, so quite worrying about it. You can't tell the difference between 50 different kinds of blennies if you don't start diving and taking photos and observing them. If that is all you care about - seeing all these various kinds of species so you can write it down in your logbook, then why bother. Just fake your logbook and save the money.
Number 3: MOST IMPORTANTLY -- what you like may not be what I like. Why you dive may have nothing to do with why I dive. Your opinion is worth reading but I take the other factors I just mentioned into consideration. I do not go anywhere just because a read a good review. I have a brain.
robin
yes I have been to Bonaire 2 times (great diving, not my favorite), Cay Sal banks Bahamas on liveaboard 2 times (great diving, probably not the same anymore due to lionfish invasion), Florida Keys and SE coast (okay diving), Roatan 2 times (great diving, love it), Cozumel 8 times (yes, my favorite in Caribbean for many, many reasons). Hawaii 1 time (okay diving, topside amazing), California kelp 6 times (best diving IMHO in US), NC wrecks (great diving but weather is issue), and Palau on liveaboard (most amazing diving ever but $$$$ and hard travel). I have also done 200+ dives in local springs and lakes with zero vis and 2-3 fish sightings.... great diving regardless.
Number 1: Every place is not the same day to day, prices at every destination vary greatly depending on services offered, and airfare from different destinations vary greatly even day to day.
Number 2: Reading about "coral species" and "fish species" from books again is getting you. Stop it. You cannot tell the difference between 50 different kinds of star coral without a microscope, so quite worrying about it. You can't tell the difference between 50 different kinds of blennies if you don't start diving and taking photos and observing them. If that is all you care about - seeing all these various kinds of species so you can write it down in your logbook, then why bother. Just fake your logbook and save the money.
Number 3: MOST IMPORTANTLY -- what you like may not be what I like. Why you dive may have nothing to do with why I dive. Your opinion is worth reading but I take the other factors I just mentioned into consideration. I do not go anywhere just because a read a good review. I have a brain.
robin
yes I have been to Bonaire 2 times (great diving, not my favorite), Cay Sal banks Bahamas on liveaboard 2 times (great diving, probably not the same anymore due to lionfish invasion), Florida Keys and SE coast (okay diving), Roatan 2 times (great diving, love it), Cozumel 8 times (yes, my favorite in Caribbean for many, many reasons). Hawaii 1 time (okay diving, topside amazing), California kelp 6 times (best diving IMHO in US), NC wrecks (great diving but weather is issue), and Palau on liveaboard (most amazing diving ever but $$$$ and hard travel). I have also done 200+ dives in local springs and lakes with zero vis and 2-3 fish sightings.... great diving regardless.
drrich2
Contributor
Considering recent posts, it's worthwhile to consider the target audience.
To borrow from Eelnoraa's analogy, there are a lot more people driving Honda Accords than Porches. And I suspect a lot more North Americans hitting Buddy Dive in Bonaire than Wakatobi. Price & measurable qualities are a big part of how many vacations are chosen. Otherwise more of us would be hitting Wakatobi, based on reviews (I haven't been; cost & travel time being measurable qualities at issue).
As for Robint's concerns, I think if you consider making recommendations on a tiered basis of relative value for the bulk of mainstream North American vacation divers, then the spirit of the thread has merit, even if the application will be subjective and limited.
Granted, some divers, who have the requisite experience and skill to handle the cold water, currents & demands of diving Wolf and Darwin off a live-aboard in the Galapagos, coupled with the money to do so without making painful sacrifices elsewhere, may find it preferable to Bonaire, Cozumel or Roatan, at least for one trip. Just like some people drive Porches. And some people will expend the time, funds and travel hassles to dive New Guinea.
But the kind of people who dive Galapagos, Wakatobi, New Guinea, a live-aboard trip to the Great Barrier Reef of Australia, or maybe hit the sardine run off South Africa (if memory serves) won't be basing their dive trip decisions heavily off this thread.
This thread has some potential value to some 'Accord divers,' considering their first, second or third dive trip.
Richard.
To borrow from Eelnoraa's analogy, there are a lot more people driving Honda Accords than Porches. And I suspect a lot more North Americans hitting Buddy Dive in Bonaire than Wakatobi. Price & measurable qualities are a big part of how many vacations are chosen. Otherwise more of us would be hitting Wakatobi, based on reviews (I haven't been; cost & travel time being measurable qualities at issue).
As for Robint's concerns, I think if you consider making recommendations on a tiered basis of relative value for the bulk of mainstream North American vacation divers, then the spirit of the thread has merit, even if the application will be subjective and limited.
Granted, some divers, who have the requisite experience and skill to handle the cold water, currents & demands of diving Wolf and Darwin off a live-aboard in the Galapagos, coupled with the money to do so without making painful sacrifices elsewhere, may find it preferable to Bonaire, Cozumel or Roatan, at least for one trip. Just like some people drive Porches. And some people will expend the time, funds and travel hassles to dive New Guinea.
But the kind of people who dive Galapagos, Wakatobi, New Guinea, a live-aboard trip to the Great Barrier Reef of Australia, or maybe hit the sardine run off South Africa (if memory serves) won't be basing their dive trip decisions heavily off this thread.
This thread has some potential value to some 'Accord divers,' considering their first, second or third dive trip.
Richard.
Wonder what Sinbad drives? My everyday car is an Accord. And majority of my trips are "Accord" trips but I still try to take the "Porche" out for a spin every couple of years.
luckydiver
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Aquacat. Direct flights from the mainland, excellent crew and boat with great rooms and accommodations, all you can handle food and beverages, 5 dives a day most days, convenience, etc. Exuma cay diving. Gets my vote. On my scale, it's a convenient Porsche Odyssee.
Okay I think I have read the entire thread....
It is both highly entertaining and moderately informative, as some people did post places they did not like.
I think that if your title would have been: Meh for the Money and Why? that it would have been less offensive, lol. Like I said, I am definitely interested in the responses, but the why is just as important as the where - so that we can all calculate our own value equations.
It is both highly entertaining and moderately informative, as some people did post places they did not like.
I think that if your title would have been: Meh for the Money and Why? that it would have been less offensive, lol. Like I said, I am definitely interested in the responses, but the why is just as important as the where - so that we can all calculate our own value equations.
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