"Doing it Cheap" Why?

[Scubagolf]

Met any yet? Didn't think so....

"I want the kind of chicks who want a set of well used Aqualung Titan (not even LX) regs and a beat up console."

 

[Peter Guy]

Man did this thread go totally off the track!

Dive-aholic nailed what hit me from the other threads -- the whole idea of, as I wrote, being penny wise and pound foolish.

I must respond to those who decried my comment about dive gear being "life support gear." Do you really not think it is? I don't know about you, but I don't have gills so I NEED my regulator (and associated parts) to be working correctly and delivering safe gas if I want to be underwater more than a few seconds (even an excellent free diver is going to have difficulty staying UW more than about 300 seconds, right?).

Of course, just because it IS "life support gear" doesn't mean that price = value = good. It may well be that some of the least expensive "life support gear" provides the absolute best value and works very well -- but that gear isn't "cheap." And, as Dive-aholic wrote, those lessons you get from a very good instructor, while perhaps "pricey" may well be the least expensive way to obtain your goal.

For what it's worth, I cringe when I see one of my students buy the "next new thing" and generally have to bite my tongue to keep from asking them (in front of the shop owner) "Why did you buy this when 'X' is right over there at half the price and will do the job better?" OTOH, I also cringe when I have a student proudly show me what a great "deal" he got by buying off Craigslist or at the super sale when, in fact, the gear won't perform -- THAT's when they are "Doing It Cheap" and I just don't get it.

 

[Dive-aholic]

I've had to tell a few students they wasted their money on poor gear. I stopped cringing about it a long time ago. They eventually figure it out anyway. It's unfortunate that so many shop owners prefer to sell the highest margin gear even when it's inferior just because the better gear gets them much less profit. What I also don't understand is people who buy used regulators thinking they are getting a great deal. Any used regulator should be serviced once purchased. By the time the additional $100-150 for servicing usually makes the total purchase more expensive than a new reg would be. But it seems people don't bother doing the math. Paying $200 for the used reg and $150 for the service is so much better than paying $350 for the new reg!?!

 

[spectrum]

I'm usually of the, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" school of thought.

A familiar piece of proven gear in good condition is probably nearly as safe and enjoyable as the new gadget that may have some nice to have features.

At the end of the day once up and running most purchases are very much discretionary. If I miss a sale i might as well wait for it to come around again. Some products are reinvented often enough that you either want it on the introductory price or the closeout splash.

I also have a stubborn DIY streak. If I'm going to pay somebody to do something I need to be darned confident that they'll do it as well or better.

 

[redacted]

I must respond to those who decried my comment about dive gear being "life support gear." Do you really not think it is? I don't know about you, but I don't have gills so I NEED my regulator (and associated parts) to be working correctly and delivering safe gas if I want to be underwater more than a few seconds (even an excellent free diver is going to have difficulty staying UW more than about 300 seconds, right?).

I do understand a rational for categorizing dive gear as "life support" other than the up-sale aspect. But it seems to me that if you choose to call a scuba regulator or BCD life support, then you must also consider a snorkel and snorkel vest as life support. As I see it, the difference is in the complexity of actions (and associated preparation) one must take should that piece of gear fail to function. In any case, there must be a readily available, effective recourse for any such failure or a life could well be in jeopardy.

But that is another thread.

Added thought: It seems to me that if scuba training emphasized failure management (and it can be managed), then you could address survival in emergencies from a system standpoint and acknowledge that no single equipment failure should ever be life threatening.

 

[Aqua-Andy]

I think the reason most people "do it cheap" is they don't know better. But I do believe that people do realize that the price for gear at most dive shops is ridiculous and that is why they start to go other places. Diving is a "hobby" and many people do not have the money to purchase what there local dive shop would like them to. When I took my open water training the shops rental gear for the class was, SP classic plus, SP smart com computer, SP mk25/s600 regs and an Xcel semi dry. One of the students asked how much this set up cost and it was around $3000. Add in the class and personal gear brings it to around $4000 just to get started in diving. No not all shops are the same but from what I have heard from other people, most are. Not only does this drive people to "do it cheap" it also drives them away from the sport altogether. No I don't suggest Walmart pricing on dive gear and classes but there has to be something in between the two. I bet probably 95% of the divers out there could get started in diving for half the price I was quoted. It just seams that the typical dive shop model is to hit them hard and fast then just keep kicking them while they are down. Just last year SP changed it's service interval from every year to every other year. Three years ago would the person who serviced there regs every other year be called "cheap"? There have been no improvements to the regs, just to the marketing concept.

 

[Bigd2722]

What the hell is a "Veyron"? I must be really out of it if I don't have a clue.

Not surprising. There are a lot of different tastes and priorities out there, why for the price of 1 Veyron, I could buy a new F-250 every 5 years or so, and have money left over to bury me when I die. My F-250 isn't the same kind of chick magnet, but then, I really don't want the kind of chick attracted to the Veyron. I want the kind of chick who wants her own titanium Atomic.

 

[Aqua-Andy]

According to Google it is a very expensive car made by Bugatti. Evan if someone gave me the car I still could not afford the kind of chicks it attracted:depressed:. After looking at more pictures, the bumpers do not seem to be too robust. So if you are one to "park by feel" I would bypass this car just in case you were looking at one.

 

[DaleC]

Price is a two way street. I cringe when I see a new diver roll out their expensive hinged fins that look like something from a science fair project. Someone sold them that and I bet there was very little discussion as to whether they were really needed for basic recreational diving.

I think the life support comments are interesting. My take is that it's life support if you will die without it. The way I dive I can cope with a failure without undue discomfort so no single reg is "life support" equipment. An iron lung for a Polio patient is. Now.. if you can't swim, don't understand your equipment, don't have redundancy or good buddies and totally depend on someone else to take care of things - I can see everything being life support.

Why people would engage in a supposedly fun, safe, recreational activity that requires "life support" equipment I don't understand.

 

[Bob DBF]

I think the reason most people "do it cheap" is they don't know better. But I do believe that people do realize that the price for gear at most dive shops is ridiculous and that is why they start to go other places. Diving is a "hobby" and many people do not have the money to purchase what there local dive shop would like them to.

I do it cheap because I have a limited supply of discretionary funds for diving. I have learned over the years that price and quality are not necessarily directly related. Since I service my own gear, and have seen a lot of equipment in various states of wear and disrepair, I can usually make a good decision on a buy.

As for students making poor decisions on gear, part of the OW class I took also covered how to evaluate gear before purchasing. Of course this is unneeded knowledge, along with a number of other things, that was removed to make classes shorter. The instructor, and dive shop owner, spent the "wasted time" in the long classes filling in the information that divers turn to Scubaboard for now.


Bob
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I may be old, but I'm not dead yet.