"Doing it Cheap" Why?

[fjpatrum]

I was in the market for a dive light. My instructor recommended a particular brand, I was looking at another light not because it was good but because it was cheap. His comment was I could buy a cheap light now and then another one later when that one broke, or go ahead and just buy the better one for just a little more up front. It would be cheaper in the long one to get one good flashlight than the cost of two cheap ones. Penny wise and pound foolish.

The problem I have with this part of your post is that often-times that simply isn't true about the cheap(er) equipment. It certainly isn't true about regulators, BCs, masks, fins, or tanks. In fact, lights might be one of the few pieces of gear that prediction could actually hold water (no pun intended).

 

[MrChen]

I don't go cheap, I look for deals.

 

[ams511]

On the other side of the coin, I have anually seviced regulatore that probably should have been serviced twice a year. Of course the worst one, was left on a boat and never saw a fresh water rinse. Do you really want to wait until there is a problem with your regulator? I agree with you about the cases were the regs are only used on a handfull of dives, or only used in fresh water, but how is the equipment manufacturer suposed to know that? Who gets sued when one fails? Even if the manufacturer specifies a number of dives, I still depends on how well its rinsed and cared for and salt or fresh water. I am not saying I know the right answer, but I will say, I have serviced some nightmares, that I would not be cought dead diving with. Pun intended. This is not an area I would go cheap in.

Jay you do not make a valid point. Most dive manufacturers have gone to a two year service interval to match Atomic's lead, not because litigation risk has declined. Also it is cheaper for manufacturers that still give parts for life because they only have to supply a rebuild kit one every two years instead of every year so this cuts their costs in half. As a diver is it better for me to check my equipment before every dive or take it to the shop once a year to be checked?

I am sure you have some horror stories, every tech does. You do have some lazy people that put the reg away wet after a saltwater dive and it is corroded to heck. However a newbie should be able to see the corrosion and avoid that item.

 

[fnfalman]

I don't go cheap, I look for deals.

Indeed!!!

I may want a T3X but I won't pay MSRP for it. I'd look for the best deal on that sucker.

 

[freewillie]

The problem I have with this part of your post is that often-times that simply isn't true about the cheap(er) equipment. It certainly isn't true about regulators, BCs, masks, fins, or tanks. In fact, lights might be one of the few pieces of gear that prediction could actually hold water (no pun intended).

It depends on what you want to base your cost value on. I never said and never meant to imply that expensive equipment is better than cheaper equipment based on cost. In the grand scheme of things, if I purchased an inexpensive regulator online for $270 instead of the more expensive Atomic Z2x for $509. The difference is $240. But, if you factored in the cost of yearly maintenance and service would be about $75 for labor and about $50-$75 for parts so essentially about $125-$150 every year to maintain a regulator. Assuming you follow factory recommendations and service your regulator once a year as opposed to every other year for Atomic official recommendations you are now spending over $100 every other year for maintenance. What you saved up front in the purchase cost comes around at the back end for maintenance. I also picked Atomic because they official market their regulators to have an every other year service schedule.

That being said, I've had the opportunity to dive both an Atomic Z2x and an T3. From my perspective they breath the same underwater. So I essentially would pay nearly 3 times the amount for a T3 but would not experience any difference in performance. More expensive isn't always better, but you have to take in consideration all factors not necessarily just what did I pay up front.

 

[scubastingray]

It depends on what you want to base your cost value on. I never said and never meant to imply that expensive equipment is better than cheaper equipment based on cost. In the grand scheme of things, if I purchased an inexpensive regulator online for $270 instead of the more expensive Atomic Z2x for $509. The difference is $240. But, if you factored in the cost of yearly maintenance and service would be about $75 for labor and about $50-$75 for parts so essentially about $125-$150 every year to maintain a regulator. Assuming you follow factory recommendations and service your regulator once a year as opposed to every other year for Atomic official recommendations you are now spending over $100 every other year for maintenance. What you saved up front in the purchase cost comes around at the back end for maintenance. I also picked Atomic because they official market their regulators to have an every other year service schedule.

That being said, I've had the opportunity to dive both an Atomic Z2x and an T3. From my perspective they breath the same underwater. So I essentially would pay nearly 3 times the amount for a T3 but would not experience any difference in performance. More expensive isn't always better, but you have to take in consideration all factors not necessarily just what did I pay up front.

And everyone always follows their manufacturers' required service intervals.
Seriously, do you think the Atomic is made from magical internals to extend the service interval? Most other regs could probably take it.

 

[freewillie]

And everyone always follows their manufacturers' required service intervals.
Seriously, do you think the Atomic is made from magical internals to extend the service interval? Most other regs could probably take it.

I fully understand the underlying principles regarding service intervals. Yes, most regs could go well beyond the 1 year service recommendations. But, if you have a warranty with your manufacturer and you do not service your gear at the recommended intervals you run the risk of voiding the warranty. That's my point exactly. You save a few dollars here and there but if there is a big problem with your regulator and you didn't service your gear appropriately then you run the risk of paying out much more money later if the warranty is voided.

It's your choice as the consumer to ignore the service interval, and no, Atomic does not use magical parts in their products. They just stand behind them better.

 

[redacted]

I fully understand the underlying principles regarding service intervals. Yes, most regs could go well beyond the 1 year service recommendations. But, if you have a warranty with your manufacturer and you do not service your gear at the recommended intervals you run the risk of voiding the warranty. That's my point exactly. You save a few dollars here and there but if there is a big problem with your regulator and you didn't service your gear appropriately then you run the risk of paying out much more money later if the warranty is voided.

It's your choice as the consumer to ignore the service interval, and no, Atomic does not use magical parts in their products. They just stand behind them better.

So what do you think that warranty that you seem to be paying $100 per year to keep in force is worth? Try to put a dollar figure on it that you can use to offset your $100 per year labor fee. Or is it only $75? Does that help in your rationalization?

My gear goes 3 to 5 years, sometimes more, between service. And the only thing that I have had that might have supported a warranty claim was an upgrade of a Mk20 piston that cost me $45 for the part.

 

[scubastingray]

I fully understand the underlying principles regarding service intervals. Yes, most regs could go well beyond the 1 year service recommendations. But, if you have a warranty with your manufacturer and you do not service your gear at the recommended intervals you run the risk of voiding the warranty. That's my point exactly. You save a few dollars here and there but if there is a big problem with your regulator and you didn't service your gear appropriately then you run the risk of paying out much more money later if the warranty is voided.

It's your choice as the consumer to ignore the service interval, and no, Atomic does not use magical parts in their products. They just stand behind them better.

The warranty lasts for what, 2 years? So one more service interval, then go to your 2 year interval if the warranty is that important to you.

 

[Fishpie]

Some people make stupid decisions and some are very good. For example, Fishpie was selling on eBay a Conself SE2 with an Octo and gauges that went for $55 + shipping. Each stage of a Conself SE2 is balanced and was rated class A in the Navy tests. Yes it is and older regulator but an excellent one and still serviceable. Adding $150 for service a buyer is at roughly $225 including $20 for shipping. Where can you buy a new regulator, octo, and gauges for $225?

Some people may buy regulators that are unserviceable but I suspect they are more the exception than the rule.

Most of the stuff I sell on eBay is fully serviced but I have found that it actually best for me to not say it is because of unscrupulous dive shops pissed because of a lost sale.
If a buyer takes his eBay purchase to such a shop and are told that it has never been serviced and it is dangerous to dive it's me that has to deal with the consequences.
I now just service anyway and call it an "underhaul".
My buyers are generally quite happy.

That particular reg will have cost the buyer just under $70 with shipping, they got a full set with octo and gauges that was fully serviced and with Conshelfs being as reliable as they are can be abused for a good 3 years (probably much longer) and not need a thing done to it.