Why are certifications valid forever?

[TN-Steve]

Hey Gang,

I'm very new to this, but I'm surprised that a c-card is basically valid forever, and really can't be revoked once it's issued. It would, to my way of thinking, make sense that they be issued for "X" amount of time (say 5 years), and at the end of that 5 years you would have to submit some proof of "Y" number of dives, or "Z" amount of continuing education, ie a more advanced cert.

Now I know that IF there were such a system, there would probably be a lot of 'Pencil Whipped' (as we used to say in the Army) log entries submitted, but that's the nature of almost any system. Just because it isn't fraud proof doesn't make it invalid.

I know that the certifications I hold in other fields (none of which have life / death consequences like diving) require me to periodically retest, show continuing ed, or otherwise show that steps have been taken to maintain the skills.

I guess that what I'm looking for is the logic behind the 'certified for life' model.

Thanks,

Steve

 

[agilis]

Actually, they become invalid when you die.

 

[CT Sean]

I know that the certifications I hold in other fields (none of which have life / death consequences like diving) require me to periodically retest, show continuing ed, or otherwise show that steps have been taken to maintain the skills.

I guess that what I'm looking for is the logic behind the 'certified for life' model.

Thanks,

Steve

Out of curiosity, are these other fields hobbies? I'll be honest, I'm having trouble coming up with hobbies that require any certification at all (I'm sure they are out there - just not familiar with them) . Activities like riding a bike or skateboarding are possibly as dangerous (i don't know the statistics) as diving and you don't need a certification at all.

 

[Akimbo]

The market wouldn't tolerate it without government intervention.

The justification for government involvement is pretty iffy because the risk to others posed by an incompetent diver has proven to be pretty low — unlike an incompetent driver using public roads or pilots flying over public and private property. The risk posed by out of control children in a car is far higher than a diver that has not been in the water for 10 years. Should we license vehicle passengers?

 

[KeithG]

Maybe it is because your c card is a "certificate of training". It is not a license. You took the course, you passed. You can not undo history.

Now if a "license" was required, then maybe having it expire would make sense....

 

[drrich2]

Because once trained and certified, many of us choose not to submit to an outside authority as to whether we can do as we wish.

And another agency would offer lifetime cert.s, a competitive advantage, and the lifetime cert. system has worked well for many people.

Anybody who doesn't want to have a lifetime cert. is free to take a repeat or new class every so often.

Time limited cert.s are about people controlling other people and many don't consider this necessarily.

Plus, the scuba field doesn't advance at the rate of, oh, way, the medical field, computer programing, etc...

Richard.

 

[The Laconic]

You can dive all you want without any certification at all. Buy equipment, get your tank filled with air, jump in the water somewhere.

Now, if you want to dive in some locations, or with some operations, or train with some instructors, they may ask to see your certification. And, if they believe it is prudent, they may not allow you to dive or train with them. Whether they believe it is prudent may depend not solely on whether you have a certification or not, but also on the state of your logbook.

Meanwhile, note that you can kill yourself if you don't maintain your skills.

There's nothing magic about certification in the first place.

 

[TN-Steve]

Maybe it is because your c card is a "certificate of training". It is not a license. You took the course, you passed. You can not undo history.

Now if a "license" was required, then maybe having it expire would make sense....

Ok, now that makes sense to me. I know in Hang Gliding your license can be suspend or revoked at any time, for unsafe acts, for violating certain rules. It MAY be because HG falls under FAR 103 (Federal Aviation Regulations), but the FAR basically says that the Govt isn't going to get involved in licensing / regulation in a major way with ultra-light aircraft, but will depend on the various groups to provide their own regulation and enforcement. Implied in that is the threat that if the various groups DON'T provide tight controls, then the Govt. could step in.

Since recreational (non-commercial) diving is basically unregulated as an activity (commercial diving I imagine falls under various health / safety regs) that makes sense.

Light starting to come on now... it's dim and flickery, but there is a light.

Steve

 

[Steve_C]

Many dive operations require a logged dive within the last X months or they will ask you to do a refresher or take a DM with you on your first dive with them. Some require a logged dive of a certain depth to dive their deeper dives.

So there is some requirement for ongoing diving.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

... I think this one falls under the category "be careful what you wish for" ...

Actually, one agency that I'm aware of (GUE) has expiring C-cards ... you must do a certain number of dives at the level of the certification over a specific time period in order to maintain its validity. For technical diving, this makes some sense ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)