Solo Technical Why?

[MXGratefulDiver]

I'm not buying the redundant air argument ... a pony bottle is redundant air, and nobody's ever suggested that it's "tech" equipment. In fact, it's common for instructors to talk about, and even recommend, the use of a pony bottle during OW class ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[DaleC]

Does the cave diving sub forum target what that diving ought to be like or what most divers are currently like.

If the purpose of a forum is to educate and allow discussion about a particular subset of diving then the forum should aim to target competency in that field, otherwise it would have the effect of dumbing down skill and expectation of behavior. At some point the message for solo diving would only be to have a DM accompany you on such dives.

As with most sub forums, I think one would focus on the activity, not the potential user because the potential user may not be competent in that activity when they first start using the forum. The DIR sub forum is a good example. Many people are dir curious and visit the site before actually becoming dir competent. That doesn't mean that the forum should target the dir curious level of understanding. Same with solo diving.

 

[uncfnp]

DaleC the DIR sub forum is in the same forum as solo, Technical Diving Specialities, but unlike Solo, it remains a read only group unless you join. Not the best comparison I think.

I don't think anyone is arguing that solo is tech. But I still contend that it is not a routine OW activity, at least not yet, and that it does deserve its own sub forum.

 

[Bob DBF]

I am not sure I understand your arguement. Are you arguing against the nomenclature on SB because having it in the technical forum is somehow limiting solo from going mainstream and keeping it "in the closet"?

Solo is just another one of the gray areas of diving that lies between the fading lines of tech and rec.

First, I didn't know that Solo was in the closet until I started on ScubaBoard, frowned upon by some, but done by many for the 50+ years I've been diving. Second, tech diving is recreational diving so I understand fading lines. As a matter of fact I saw the tech/rec line fade in, as what is now considered tech diving now was just advanced diving back when I was doing it. Just start classes and print up cards and you too can start another type of rec diving.

My only problem with moving Solo to another place on ScubaBoard is that it will take me a while to get used to it's new location.


Bob
-----------------
"This is scuba board, where problems are imagined or overstated......and chests get thumped about what some would do about those "problems" "- PullMyFinger

 

[ams511]

When were solo diving courses offered? It could be that this forum predates them. The oldest posts go back to 2004 but I am not sure if that when this forum started.

---------- Post added May 1st, 2015 at 12:55 PM ----------

In fact, it's common for instructors to talk about, and even recommend, the use of a pony bottle during OW class ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Because it is a vital piece of safety equipment or another item the LDS can sell? Remember some shops even sell (please forgive me for typing this) spare air.

 

[DaleC]

DaleC the DIR sub forum is in the same forum as solo, Technical Diving Specialities, but unlike Solo, it remains a read only group unless you join. Not the best comparison I think.

I don't think anyone is arguing that solo is tech. But I still contend that it is not a routine OW activity, at least not yet, and that it does deserve its own sub forum.

I think that the dir forum should be in the tech area because so much about it is geared towards that sort of diving. That doesn't mean you have to always tech dive but the equipment, skills, ideology and standards all spring from there. Beginning with the end in mind, so to speak. There is no "recreational branch" separate from mainstream dir. It is all a continuum that comes from the top down. I suspect it is read only due to the contentious nature of some discussions and because the participants got tired of outsiders muddying the concept of what dir was/is.

Solo diving OTOH, has nothing to do with either technical or recreational diving. It is about doing whatever you choose, alone. The skills come from the activity, not from being alone perse. Yes, you need to alter your approach based on the fact that you do not have a buddy (and all that goes with it) but the skills are all from the activity itself. Nothing you need to know about rec solo diving comes from any other source but rec solo diving... you just need to know it (and yourself) well.

Solo should be the same as ice, deep, cavern, or altitude diving - a specialty. That's where it is heading with the SDI and PADI certs.

---------- Post added May 1st, 2015 at 04:53 PM ----------

Because it is a vital piece of safety equipment or another item the LDS can sell? Remember some shops even sell (please forgive me for typing this) spare air.

Some would use that same argument for an octo, BCD or SPG. Why, in 2015, people still think it is wrong to carry redundant air while underwater yet believe it is ok to trust an absolute stranger to have it ready and available throughout the dive instead is a complete mystery to me. I suspect it has to do with the relatively low accident rate in scuba combined with the human trait of believing nothing bad will ever happen.. to us.

 

[Omisson]

But that is not what SDI and PADI are saying as they have clearly classified solo as advanced recreational.

As long as we ostracize solo to the closet the longer and more difficult it will be to find solo tolerant ops.

This all is vaguely familiar to the nitrox arguments. I remember all of the same arguments made that it was to technical for the recreational diver and that nitrox was a technical topic/skill.

There is a thread about DM fitness. It is seemed to be said that if one meets the standard then they are good to go. If there are standards for solo, and there are, and they are met, why is this a problem? Why is it different from any other recreational certification? You have standards, you meet the standards, you go dive, in this case solo.

Buddy-less diving may not have been a part of recreational diving but that has changed, SDI and PADI now recognize recreational solo.

N

Because there is a recreational level course embracing "solo" practice - doesn't mean it's "just like nitrox" arguments.

Nitrox was untested, the studies unclear on how it worked, and was called "voodoo gas@ because the science wasn't understood.

Solo diving requires very much a technical divers mindset, complete redundancy of equipment, and sufficient experience that enables a decision tree that accounts for multiple contingency plans - that simply isn't in most divers. It also begs being in a configuration like Sidemount or doubles....

This warrants a very different diver not needed for simply diving Enriched Air. Comparing the two is sophomoric at best.

---------- Post added May 1st, 2015 at 08:28 PM ----------

Conventional limitations are not all they're cracked up to be. Try telling drivers that slower traffic is to stay to the right, or bicyclists should walk their bike across a crosswalk.

There is no "required" equipment. Anyone can solo with a single tank, doubles, rebreather or free dive. Unless I'm making a tech dive I use the same equipment no matter who else is in the water.

The only thing I do differently when solo diving is not worry about where my buddy is.

Where do you get it has no "required" equipment - both the PADI and SDI course most definitely have requirements.

This statement is asinine - unless you mean all training standards and their certification limits are meaningless.

If the only thing different in your solo diving is not worrying about your buddy - statistically soon enough someone will get hurt- hopefully it's not some newbie following your advice... Assuming you actually do any diving as an instructor- please let us know so we can notify your agency of your thoughts on the matter....

 

[kr2y5]

Hmmm, some of the downsides of moving solo to the rec forum were clearly articulated, e.g., liability issues... if I were the forum admin, I would not move it unless someone did an equally good job clearly articulating the benefits of doing so, and I felt the upsides outweigh the downsides. Is it believed that branding the activity as non-technical will encourage more participation? Why do you care?

 

[DaleC]

Solo diving requires very much a technical divers mindset, complete redundancy of equipment, and sufficient experience that enables a decision tree that accounts for multiple contingency plans - that simply isn't in most divers. It also begs being in a configuration like Sidemount or doubles....

This I think, shows a very rigid view of the activity not grounded in real experience, sort of like defaulting to the most onerous response regardless of conditions. Do you use doubles or sidemount and redundant everything on 30' reef dives? I would say that reflects a minority opinion from most solo divers.

 

[Omisson]

This I think, shows a very rigid view of the activity not grounded in real experience, sort of like defaulting to the most onerous response regardless of conditions. Do you use doubles or sidemount and redundant everything on 30' reef dives? I would say that reflects a minority opinion from most solo divers.

Divers in teams die in water as shallow as 20 feet. Anyone who ignores rules or becomes complacent with the application of tried and true safety measures is an accident waiting to happen- it's called the normalization of deviance.

Perhaps you feel diving is a perfectly safe sport and ascents from 20 feet have no danger to them. Physics and Physiology disagree with you.

Any instructor who disregards such rules is committing malpractice and endangers their students.

Comments like yours - create a complacent mindset in newbie divers which is why the solo forum used to be semi-closed.

Thanks for reminding everyone of why.


I use LP50 Sidemount in 30' reef recreational dives.