Solo Technical Why?

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What the heck are you talking about?

Be specific about which statement I made that creates complacency in a new divers mind (I dislike the word newbie so I changed that) or go attack someones character somewhere else. I'll help you out with the list:


  • Plan a dive,
  • choose the right equipment,
  • maintain situational awareness throughout the dive,
  • avoid hazards,
  • self rescue
  • and know ones limits.

Air sources come under choosing the right equipment. A solo diver should be a thinking diver and aware of their abilities as well as options for dealing with issues other than equipment dependence. These options are generally referred to as skills. There are a number of them that can be used to surface from 30' without resorting to diving doubles or sidemount. Shall I list them?
 
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Hmmm, some of the downsides of moving solo to the rec forum were clearly articulated, e.g., liability issues... if I were the forum admin, I would not move it unless someone did an equally good job clearly articulating the benefits of doing so, and I felt the upsides outweigh the downsides. Is it believed that branding the activity as non-technical will encourage more participation? Why do you care?

If you are talking to me I have clearly stated my reasons multiple times. Just read the thread. I stand with my statements.

N
 
What the heck are you talking about?

Be specific about which statement I made that creates complacency in a new divers mind (I dislike the word newbie so I changed that) or go attack someones character somewhere else. I'll help you out with the list:


  • Plan a dive,
  • choose the right equipment,
  • maintain situational awareness throughout the dive,
  • avoid hazards,
  • self rescue
  • and know ones limits.

Air sources come under choosing the right equipment. A solo diver should be a thinking diver and aware of their abilities as well as options for dealing with issues other than equipment dependence. These options are generally referred to as skills. There are a number of them that can be used to surface from 30' without resorting to diving doubles or sidemount. Shall I list them?

How about I list them and help you out.

Redundant air. It's not an "option" in solo diving - it's a requirement. Even if not diving doubles or Sidemount a true supply of redundant air (not a spare air container) with independent regulator. A pony 30 cu/ft is a no brainer.

Caught in the kelp? Snagged on monofilament? It may take you longer than your primary gas supply to exit- and there's "no buddy" to help. Hope you have a redundant supply of air- because Murphy's law says this is when that first stage oring will burst or regulator will fail. It doesn't matter the surface is 20 feet away if you can't get to it.

Speaking of which- redundant cutting tools are also a requirement - go to cut yourself free without "some buddy" to help! People dont expect to get caught on monofilament but it happens all the time. Make sure the tools are located at different reaching points so you could get to one even if the other is inaccessible due to your entanglement.

A dive plan & gas management plan is also a requirement- you need to know best mix, dive time and depth so as to plan properly and not wind up running out of air, violating NDL, or getting lost- that may require compass, smb, and other planning components- but the plan itself is most certainly a requirement......

pesky solo requirements...
 
How about I list them and help you out.

Redundant air. It's not an "option" in solo diving - it's a requirement. Even if not diving doubles or Sidemount a true supply of redundant air (not a spare air container) with independent regulator. A pony 30 cu/ft is a no brainer.

Caught in the kelp? Snagged on monofilament? It may take you longer than your primary gas supply to exit- and there's "no buddy" to help. Hope you have a redundant supply of air- because Murphy's law says this is when that first stage oring will burst or regulator will fail. It doesn't matter the surface is 20 feet away if you can't get to it.

Speaking of which- redundant cutting tools are also a requirement - go to cut yourself free without "some buddy" to help! People dont expect to get caught on monofilament but it happens all the time. Make sure the tools are located at different reaching points so you could get to one even if the other is inaccessible due to your entanglement.

A dive plan & gas management plan is also a requirement- you need to know best mix, dive time and depth so as to plan properly and not wind up running out of air, violating NDL, or getting lost- that may require compass, smb, and other planning components- but the plan itself is most certainly a requirement......

pesky solo requirements...

Well I'm not sure if the redundant air is a "requirement". From 1972 to 20?? I dove solo without redundant air. It is a good idea however and I've done it for the last few years or so. Of course having never taken a solo course, there were none in 1972, I wouldn't know what the "requirements" for solo diving but I do know what I need to stay alive during a solo dive, it's between my ears and can't be bought in a dive shop.
 
Who made up these requirements? Did you read it in a book. This is like the manufacturers and instructors taking over the sidemount forum now telling everyone they need to buy XYZ harness and take 123 course to do that activity. But let's look at your list.

Redundant air as a solution to entanglement? Who teaches that because I've never heard it. Your "reserve" gas used for solving problems is factored into a gas plan and usually revolves around the size of primary cylinder chosen. Truth is, if you can't get out of an entanglement within the time allotted by a conservative primary gas plan, you probably won't. If someone feels that volume is not enough they need to revisit their reserve calculations, not add another piece of gear to compensate.

As for murphy's law. We usually plan for one failure, not sixteen, after all Murphy knows no limits. Why not have three redundant air sources in case you burn through one and forgot to fill the other.. oh wait make it four, that third one is filled with 100% helium.

A redundant air supply is used when a primary gas failure makes ascent problematic. If you are within CESA depth, and are competent in that skill, a redundant air source is not required. You would make a direct ascent. To advocate solo diving and not emphasize that ability (and the skill required) is sub optimal IMO. The surface is a great and easily attained solution to almost any problem - learn to use it. This also goes hand in hand with not bumping up against or violating NDL's and does not include boat traffic or other impediments. In those cases a redundant air source, even at shallow depths, may be required. Those concepts would fall under:


  • Plan a dive,
  • choose the right equipment,
  • maintain situational awareness throughout the dive,
  • avoid hazards,
  • self rescue,
  • and know ones limits.

However, I do see a problem when solo diving becomes a course to be taught instead of an activity. Knowing your limits and developing skill are very individual ideas, not easily taught. An instructor cannot "know someone else's limits" once they leave the course or "develop skill" for them. One can indicate the way to do it but ultimately, that is up to the individual. Instead, overarching bandaids like total redundancy and diving thirds are taught as a sort of "catch all" contingency. That speaks to the weakness of teaching solo diving to the masses though, not the dedicated solo diver.


A redundant cutting tool is actually one thing I do believe in, mainly because under stress I think it's pretty easy to drop one. It's why I have a wrist loop of bungee through mine. Before adding the second tool, have you remedied that issue with the first?

Redundant mask?
Redundant computer?
Redundant compass?
Redundant Snorkel?

Not for a 30' dive, unless specific conditions indicate otherwise.

I mean, when you make a blanket statement like you need complete redundancy I am curious where that starts and where that ends and whether people actually think about what that means.
 
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How about I list them and help you out.

Redundant air. It's not an "option" in solo diving - it's a requirement. Even if not diving doubles or Sidemount a true supply of redundant air (not a spare air container) with independent regulator. A pony 30 cu/ft is a no brainer.

Caught in the kelp? Snagged on monofilament? It may take you longer than your primary gas supply to exit- and there's "no buddy" to help. Hope you have a redundant supply of air- because Murphy's law says this is when that first stage oring will burst or regulator will fail. It doesn't matter the surface is 20 feet away if you can't get to it.

Speaking of which- redundant cutting tools are also a requirement - go to cut yourself free without "some buddy" to help! People dont expect to get caught on monofilament but it happens all the time. Make sure the tools are located at different reaching points so you could get to one even if the other is inaccessible due to your entanglement.

A dive plan & gas management plan is also a requirement- you need to know best mix, dive time and depth so as to plan properly and not wind up running out of air, violating NDL, or getting lost- that may require compass, smb, and other planning components- but the plan itself is most certainly a requirement......

pesky solo requirements...

I guess I have lost track of the point? None of these things eliminate solo from recreational diving.

Moving on from the quote to more general thoughts------. As to liability again I have to ask, why would a solo diver with a solo recreational advanced certification (PADI or SDI) be a liability issue to SB regardless of where the forum is located, tech or advanced?

I seem to see something I guess I never noticed before. The solo dive bunch seems to be split about 50/50. Half of us think that solo is not legitimate, scary and dangerous and can only be practiced by super hero tech divers like themselves. The other half which includes me think that solo is a normal activity with no greater dangers than any other recreational SCUBA diving which can be safely done by any practiced, solo certified diver.

As to redundant air, SDI does require a redundant source. However, long before I was SDI Advanced Certified for solo I solo dived. I have been solo diving my entire life from when I was fourteen swimming around under my parent's boat with my mother yelling in vain for me to please come up. The water was fifteen feet deep and she could see me for goodness sake! I am not going to get into my personal thoughts on redundancy and my application of the Rule of Thirds in this particular discussion.

People, we all do it, try to apply our specific frame of reference/experience as if it were a generality. Diving in a kelp forest from shore for example, do not try to apply this experience to diving the Jetties at PC or the reef ledges out of Commercial Pier or the BHB or Lake Mead or some quarry some place. While there are always commonalities, they are each unique and part of becoming a well rounded diver is recognizing these unique, uh, opportunities and potential dangers each presents and then evaluating your equipment choices, mental and physical capabilities and making a go and no go choice. No, I am not going to get into in this particular discussion my thoughts on always diving the same gear/rig vs picking and choosing the right gear/rig to match the dive.

Creating a forum for certified solo divers in the Advanced Forum allows an opportunity for divers to learn, discuss and evaluate themselves and their experiences with that of their colleagues in the sport of solo in the bright light of day away from some of you guys here in the closet. Solo is not a disease and it is not a liability. Why take it out of the Tech Forum--because of the 50% of you tech-ish divers who think solo is dangerous, scary and only practiced by super hero tech divers with super tech powers, that is why. That 50% is more scary and dangerous to the solo diver than actual solo diving!

All I want to do is strap my pony on and jump in with my camera so I can have a photo without fins sticking into it or the bottom stirred up by split fins galore.

N
 
Who made up these requirements? Did you read it in a book. This is like the manufacturers and instructors taking over the sidemount forum now telling everyone they need to buy XYZ harness and take 123 course to do that activity. But let's look at your list.

Redundant air as a solution to entanglement? Who teaches that because I've never heard it. Your "reserve" gas used for solving problems is factored into a gas plan and usually revolves around the size of primary cylinder chosen. Truth is, if you can't get out of an entanglement within the time allotted by a conservative primary gas plan, you probably won't. If someone feels that volume is not enough they need to revisit their reserve calculations, not add another piece of gear to compensate.

As for murphy's law. We usually plan for one failure, not sixteen, after all Murphy knows no limits. Why not have three redundant air sources in case you burn through one and forgot to fill the other.. oh wait make it four, that third one is filled with 100% helium.

A redundant air supply is used when a primary gas failure makes ascent problematic. If you are within CESA depth, and are competent in that skill, a redundant air source is not required. You would make a direct ascent. To advocate solo diving and not emphasize that ability (and the skill required) is sub optimal IMO. The surface is a great and easily attained solution to almost any problem - learn to use it. This also goes hand in hand with not bumping up against or violating NDL's and does not include boat traffic or other impediments. In those cases a redundant air source, even at shallow depths, may be required. Those concepts would fall under:


  • Plan a dive,
  • choose the right equipment,
  • maintain situational awareness throughout the dive,
  • avoid hazards,
  • self rescue,
  • and know ones limits.

However, I do see a problem when solo diving becomes a course to be taught instead of an activity. Knowing your limits and developing skill are very individual ideas, not easily taught. An instructor cannot "know someone else's limits" once they leave the course or "develop skill" for them. One can indicate the way to do it but ultimately, that is up to the individual. Instead, overarching bandaids like total redundancy and diving thirds are taught as a sort of "catch all" contingency. That speaks to the weakness of teaching solo diving to the masses though, not the dedicated solo diver.


A redundant cutting tool is actually one thing I do believe in, mainly because under stress I think it's pretty easy to drop one. It's why I have a wrist loop of bungee through mine. Before adding the second tool, have you remedied that issue with the first?

Redundant mask?
Redundant computer?
Redundant compass?
Redundant Snorkel?

Not for a 30' dive, unless specific conditions indicate otherwise.

I mean, when you make a blanket statement like you need complete redundancy I am curious where that starts and where that ends and whether people actually think about what that means.

Who made up the requirements? The two agencies that certify solo divers SDI and PADI....

Really?
 
If you are talking to me I have clearly stated my reasons multiple times. Just read the thread. I stand with my statements.

I wasn't trying to argue against you, actually... I'm just a passive observer who's trying to better understand the practical side of your argument, and I got a bit lost. I apologize if I missed something... but then, if I did, maybe others missed it too, so it might actually be beneficial for you to set it straight? Often, we only think we communicated clearly, whereas in reality we didn't... I've skimmed over your posts, and I'm still not crystal clear on what sequence of concrete positive outcomes you are after. Here's the best I could make out of it:

1. Branding solo as rec removes the "tech" stigma that currently causes it to be perceived as dangerous...

2. ...and this encourages more people to discuss, learn, and participate...

2. ...and more people participating makes it more mainstream, which encourages dive charter operators to cater to solo divers...

4. ...so you get to dive solo on your favorite charter.

Is this accurate?
 
pesky solo requirements...

When I think of a requirement - I think of a must have - must be... A requirement to me is there is no way around it - AOW requires OW as a prerequisite - no and's or's or but's it is is a hard and fast requirement.

When I solo I have recommendations when I shore dive - above 30 feet I do not find the need for redundant air - it is a hassle to carry and get over the rocks or jetties and I can make my way to the surface with out my pony from 30 feet. That is to say if I do not dive with a redundant air source - no one will come and take my solo certification away - it is not a requirement for me to have any redundancy. If you or the scuba police chose to tell me otherwise I can ignore you and them and continue on my solo dive. So requirement in my mind is over used in this context.

So I see it as - use your own risk assessment and chose or not chose your equipment / redundancy wisely - because you and only you and your loved ones will be impacted - this is the key part.

To me Panic is what needs to be discussed and understood at an individual level for all Solo divers. That to me is the single most important issue to keep under control and if you think you are getting into a grey area that could make you concerned - turn around or start heading up. Do not continue your dive if you think you may run into a serious issue - live to dive another day.
 
Redundant air could be a requirement of a operator if solo diving from their boat(s). But that's as far as the word requirement can be used with relation to solo diving. It certainty is not a requirement if diving from one's own boat or shore diving solo. A mask is a requirement, one can dive without it but what's the point? It is a good idea especially for new divers with limited experience or just for a little reassurance that makes them feel more comfortable. As others posted a 30' CESA should be doable by any competent diver; the submariners at one time did 90' CESAs as part of their training. The requirements are in fact guidelines that should be considered on a dive by dive basis. If I'm making a deep solo dive I use my ID's if it's just a rock hop to some shallow depth a 30 cuft tank would just get in the way.
 
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