Air integrated computer and tec diving

[Johanan]

More modern Suunto computers aren't much better. They use a proprietary Wienke RGBM, which is beyond useless in a technical context. Anything Wienke related is useless in a technical context and a proprietary Wienke algorithm means (a) run away because it's Wienke and (b) run away because it's proprietary. R..

That's interesting. I have a Mares Icon HD computer which also uses Wienke RGBT. I was not warned against it like this in any of my courses. In the TDI Decompression Procedures manual RGBM is listed as one of algorithms. The manual says that most RGBM dive profiles are similar to those created by VPM-B. What do you mean by saying that it is useless in technical context? What is the ground for writing it off, apart from that it's Wienke and it's proprietary?

 

[KenGordon]

That's interesting. I have a Mares Icon HD computer which also uses Wienke RGBT. I was not warned against it like this in any of my courses. In the TDI Decompression Procedures manual RGBM is listed as one of algorithms. The manual says that most RGBM dive profiles are similar to those created by VPM-B. What do you mean by saying that it is useless in technical context? What is the ground for writing it off, apart from that it's Wienke and it's proprietary?

There are numerous disadvantages. I am sure the Suunto haters havre have suffered them all in their extensive personal testing.

1 - when planning your dive you can use the Suunto supplied software which matches what the computer will do in the water. This saves buying multi deco for example.

2 - you may end up being in the water longer on your final stop. This saves you hanging about on a bouncy boat for the CCR guys using every minute of the 2hrs max run time the skipper allows. It might also stop you finding out if tiredness is a symptom of decompression stress and whether nitrox is a miracle drug.

3 - when diving with almost everybody else (locally in my case) your stops will be exactly the same. On my TDI AN/DP course two of the three other students and the instructor had them. Our plans came from DM4, the Suunto software (which does have some crappy aspects)

I am about to replace a lost helo2. The third reason above is making it not an obvious choice. It is good to know that the time to surface shown by your computer matches your buddy's, especially if leading a not so experienced diver.

 

[DevonDiver]

I still don't know what a plonker is.

I also don't know what balliwick is,...

bail·i·wick
ˈbāləˌwik
noun
noun: bailiwick; noun: one's bailiwick; plural noun: one's bailiwicks; plural noun: bailiwicks

1. one's sphere of operations or particular area of interest.

 

[AJ]

What do you mean by saying that it is useless in technical context? What is the ground for writing it off, apart from that it's Wienke and it's proprietary?

What I have heard is that Suunto RGBM is not reliable/predictable below 60m. Don't know if it's true, but it's too limited if it is crippled in this way for tec diving. Other thing is that a tec diver wants's to understand what his computer is telling him. In other words: he want's to understand and know on forehand the profile being executed during the dive. He want's a predictable algorithm that is well-understood and comparable to other independant sources. Using DM 4/5 in combination with a Suunto DC means you're relying on just one source, with not even transparent algorithm, for your planning. Does not sound very wise to me.

Suunto DC's are fine, but not for every kind of diving.

 

[KenGordon]

'Heard'? Any primary sources?

 

[Johanan]

There are numerous disadvantages. I am sure the Suunto haters havre have suffered them all in their extensive personal testing.

My English is self-taught, but the disadvantages you listed sound rather like benefits to me. Should I have detected irony in your post?:blinking:

 

[Storker]

My English is self-taught, but the disadvantages you listed sound rather like benefits to me. Should I have detected irony in your post?:blinking:

I think it's quite possible that you need to turn up your irony detector's sensitivity, yes

On my TDI AN/DP course two of the three other students and the instructor had them. Our plans came from DM4, the Suunto software (which does have some crappy aspects)

Since I uninstalled DM4 as soon as I discovered what they'd done with the program since DM3, I've only been playing around with the dive planner that came with DM3. I've never seen that planner give me anything but 3m deco stops (except the one minute "deep stop" at half max depth). Are you saying that the DM4 dive planner will give you a staged deco profile with multiple stops? How do the deco profiles that DM4 give you compare to those given by e.g. Multideco or V-planner?

 

[The Chairman]

ke I said.... read what's written, not what you assume.

I've been agreeing with you since the start Pete, quite clearly and emphatically. Debate is a process of transmission and reception. Be open to recieve...

I did read what you wrote... not what you think you wrote... and I disagree with it quite clearly and emphatically. Perhaps you should heed your own advice in this regard. Lest our differences get lost in the sauce:

• I'm surprised that you are worried about a second SPG since you often dive with two. I get it's not the way you do it on backmount, but so what? You have yet to produce an injury or death to support just how dangerous this is in your mind.
• I'm perplexed about your contention that not using a second SPG is somehow written in blood. I get you think a lot of your opinions, but this is not just over the top, it's way the hell over the top. Show us the blood!
• There is no one authority for tech diving. That's the DIR approach and most of us wrote that off before the ink dried on GI3's cyber rants. We don't need or want a new GI3 in any event, so in the words of Sgt Hulka: "Lighten up Francis!"

 

[DevonDiver]

Pete, the OP asked a question. I answered it.

If you'd like a more definitive answer, particular to the Tec40/45 course..... and the PADI TecRec approach, here it is...

TecRec Tec Deep Diver Manual, page 38:
"SPG (Submersible Pressure Gauge). You only have one of these because two creates the potential for two high pressure leaks. If your SPG fails, you'll end the dive immediately anyway....The preferred SPG is the simple, mechanical type because it's reliable (no battery concerns). Few tech divers use air integrated computers, whether with hose or hoseless. They're electronic, tend to be bulkier, and if the gauge fails, you're out of two, rather than one instrument".

Not my words. Not my opinions.

The OP asked about Tec40/45.

He didn't ask for random opinions or some rant on civil (diving) liberties. He wanted advice for his upcoming training. Am I 'big headed'? No... I teach Tec40/45 (and 50...and 65...and Trimix). It's my profession, not a hobby, and has been for a decade.... so forgive me for being sure of the course specifics.

There's no authority for tech diving, but it's not a consequence-less free-for-all either. Simply READ THE THREAD... the question was about tech TRAINING... and there is authority on that.

What I've attempted to do was provoke thinking on the wider issue... Tec principles. These also are clearly worded in the Tech Deep Diver Manual... and pertinent considerations for the OP at this stage.


TecRec Tec Deep Diver Manual, page 192:
"The Principle of Procedure and Discipline. You follow the rules and work the procedures without exception on every dive, no matter how familiar the dive and no matter how much experience you have. To state this in a negative context: Cutting corners kills".

Thats not 'DIR'.... that's PADI...

Pete, you can object all you wish. The fact, I don't log into Scubaboard to engage in a battle of egos,.... I enjoy teaching and I e joy helping people. That's my aim in this thread... to help the OP. To provide accurate information and promote beneficial mindset development for his future tech training. What's your aim?

 

[The Chairman]

Whatever, George.

So, I guess you can't side mount in a Tec40 class? 2 phunni!