Tipping Divemasters

[newsted]

I used to work in a hotel as a waiter for few months when I came to Ireland. I worked on a farm, factory and some other jobs in between but this was the hardest one. Tips make a huge difference. And everyone loved Americans . But until now I did not know DM should be tipped. Thanks for the heads up.

 

[Lorenzoid]

. . .
Every day at work I trade my life for my money; it is clock-time that I will never get back. I will in turn, give it to people who work for it.

I do the same at work: my firm pays me for the work I put in in service to our clients. However, I don't receive tips from our clients for a job well done. The most I have ever received was a compliment. I suppose the theory is that we are in a better bargaining position with the people who receive our services than, say, a restaurant server. Therefore, our compensation reflects the full value of our services. I dislike the idea of having to tip people because their employer is not paying them for the full value of their services. But that's the way the system works in America. In other countries, people have traditionally been paid for the full value of their services. The American system of using the customer to pay a portion of an employee's compensation is increasingly creeping in. It is happening more slowly in countries where unions are strong.

I like the idea that tipping is a form of charity, but employees should first be compensated fully and not have an expectation of being compensated through charity. I'm not even sure that every culture would appreciate the idea that he is living off charity. I think many people would rather feel they are simply being compensated for the work they have done. Giving someone more money simply because the person seems "poor" to us seems paternalistic to me.

While on Utilla, I followed the custom and added my tip to the communal jar. I also tipped the kitchen staff directly, because their hard work was an essential part of my enjoyment--their food was excellent! I was shocked by the positive responses I got from the kitchen staff, and by the negative responses I got from my co-divers and others (my kitchen staff tips were done in private). . . .

Interesting that you bring up Utila. Utila has a few dive resorts, but as you likely know it is better known as a mecca for the international backpacker set, and there are a number of dive operations that cater to those visitors. A steady stream of young people arriving and doing some dive training on the cheap, leaving a few weeks later to continue their gap year adventure southward or northward through the Americas. I was there for a month or so, and from what I saw, none of them tipped, and none of the divemasters--generally people from around the world themselves, some of whom had been just such backpackers only six months or a year ago--seemed to expect tips. The only people who tipped were the relatively few older Americans.

 

[EastEndDiver]

They'll get a tip when they pry it from my cold dead hands..................No not really I happen to be a good tipper and a great tipper when the service warrants it BUT I would rather pay additional money for the dive(s) so that the DiveMasters receive a liveable wage rather than have to rely on tips which sometimes they do not receive.

 

[scrane]

I'm not a rich guy. I usually stay in the cheapest hotel available and eat the cheapest food I can find. I tip $5. a dive, every dive Sometimes I give it to the DM, sometimes to the captain, and sometimes to the kid hauling tanks.

 

[boulderjohn]

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[IBjones]

As a crew member, if i get to know you as a poor tipper it becomes like the pizza delivery guy. Sometimes the pizza gets there cold....sometimes the cheese slides to one side.

I'm not defending cheapskates, but performing your job poorly on purpose is just as wrong as not tipping.

 

[mmmbelows]

I dislike the idea of having to tip people because their employer is not paying them for the full value of their services. But that's the way the system works in America. In other countries, people have traditionally been paid for the full value of their services. The American system of using the customer to pay a portion of an employee's compensation is increasingly creeping in. It is happening more slowly in countries where unions are strong.

I like the idea that tipping is a form of charity, but employees should first be compensated fully and not have an expectation of being compensated through charity. I'm not even sure that every culture would appreciate the idea that he is living off charity. I think many people would rather feel they are simply being compensated for the work they have done. Giving someone more money simply because the person seems "poor" to us seems paternalistic to me.

Can you list a few jobs where " I dislike the idea of having to tip people because their employer is not paying them for the full value of their services." I can only think of waiting tables where this would fit what you are saying even thought the reality isn't really true. In America waiting tables is basically a position that the employee gets paid by their tips. There is a small hourly compensation and the law establishes that if the combined total doesn't meet a minimum wage that the employer has to make it up in their check. Every waiter realizes they work for tips and not a paycheck from their employer. Bartenders look for busy bars to work in and can bring home $300-$600 in a night, they work for tips not their paycheck, waiters often do the same thing, once they've been around they look for restaurants to work in that will allow them to make good tips. So I don't believe you're actually making up for their employer not paying them for their value, it's simply a different compensation method, like a sales person being on full commission instead of salary. In the US waiters are compensated by tips not salary.

There might be some jobs that fit your description but I can't think of any.

There is a huge upside to the American waiter working for tips, the service is generally outstanding compared to the European experience. Even European's who come to America comment on the higher quality of service they receive here. There is something to be said for the American experience that tipped waiters creates when you can go into even a lower priced restaurant in America and the waiter greets you immediately, takes a drink order, returns promptly, takes the entree order, returns to refill drinks before the entree is served, serves the entree, returns shortly to check on the entree order is trouble free, refills drinks, takes the dessert order, refills drinks, serves dessert, refills drinks... compare that with what even in a more expensive restaurant, if it's in Europe there is a good chance the experience will be more where you sit down and wait and wait for table service, because the waiter who doesn't work for tips, but gets paid the same no matter the service is too busy smoking outside, finally shows up takes a drink order and wants to take the food order at the same time, your drinks might show up before the food, might show up at the same time, once the food is served the waiter disappears, you'll see them across the room standing at the kitchen counter talking, checking Iphone... you make eye contact, they ignore you, you probably have to wave them down, they finally show back up at the table... you'll rarely get a drink refill.. won't be asked about desert and of course per tradition you must ask for the check. On the plus side in Europe the table is yours for the night you can take your time, but you're also basically on your own. In America they do want to turn tables quicker but your service is far better with the waiter working for tips they actually have incentive to provide good service. There are good and bad restaurant experiences in both the US and Europe but the European experience I described is not an exception to the rule where a similar one in the US it would be.

 

[Lorenzoid]

Can you list a few jobs where " I dislike the idea of having to tip people because their employer is not paying them for the full value of their services." I can only think of waiting tables where this would fit what you are saying even thought the reality isn't really true. In America waiting tables is basically a position that the employee gets paid by their tips. There is a small hourly compensation and the law establishes that if the combined total doesn't meet a minimum wage that the employer has to make it up in their check. Every waiter realizes they work for tips and not a paycheck from their employer. Bartenders look for busy bars to work in and can bring home $300-$600 in a night, they work for tips not their paycheck, waiters often do the same thing, once they've been around they look for restaurants to work in that will allow them to make good tips. So I don't believe you're actually making up for their employer not paying them for their value, it's simply a different compensation method, like a sales person being on full commission instead of salary. In the US waiters are compensated by tips not salary.

I agree with most of that, including that "waiting tables" is the only example that comes to mind. But from what I have been reading here and in previous threads on the topic, it occurred to me that divemastering might be similar. I am assuming they are paid a wage and not "volunteering" or however they and the dive ops think they are legally "working only for tips." I mean, are dive ops not required to pay divemasters the full minimum wage or, if they are considered by the IRS to be "tipped employees," to make up any shortfall?

I do interpret the US system as, in effect, asking the customer to pay a portion of the compensation of the restaurant server. The server's service is worth X. Regardless of what the historical purpose of tipping might have been, today the expectation is that a restaurant customer will pay 20% of the bill. I can't speak for others, but I always pay 20%. If the service was poor, I inform a manager, but I still tip 20% because it's the portion of X that the customer is expected to pay. If the server performs poorly, the employer can penalize the server in whatever way the employer sees fit. I don't see it as my job to adjust the server's compensation. In what other line of employment is the customer given control over the compensation of some employee who assists the customer? If a salesperson in a clothing store gives me crappy service, can I pay less for the shirt?

There is a huge upside to the American waiter working for tips, the service is generally outstanding compared to the European experience. Even European's who come to America comment on the higher quality of service they receive here. There is something to be said for the American experience that tipped waiters creates when you can go into even a lower priced restaurant in America and the waiter greets you immediately, takes a drink order, returns promptly, takes the entree order, returns to refill drinks before the entree is served, serves the entree, returns shortly to check on the entree order is trouble free, refills drinks, takes the dessert order, refills drinks, serves dessert, refills drinks... compare that with what even in a more expensive restaurant, if it's in Europe there is a good chance the experience will be more where you sit down and wait and wait for table service, because the waiter who doesn't work for tips, but gets paid the same no matter the service is too busy smoking outside, finally shows up takes a drink order and wants to take the food order at the same time, your drinks might show up before the food, might show up at the same time, once the food is served the waiter disappears, you'll see them across the room standing at the kitchen counter talking, checking Iphone... you make eye contact, they ignore you, you probably have to wave them down, they finally show back up at the table... you'll rarely get a drink refill.. won't be asked about desert and of course per tradition you must ask for the check. On the plus side in Europe the table is yours for the night you can take your time, but you're also basically on your own. In America they do want to turn tables quicker but your service is far better with the waiter working for tips they actually have incentive to provide good service. There are good and bad restaurant experiences in both the US and Europe but the European experience I described is not an exception to the rule where a similar one in the US it would be.

I respectfully disagree. I prefer the European system. I dislike fawning waiters who won't leave my wife and me alone for five minutes without refilling our water glasses, asking "is everything okay?" etc. In Europe, waiting tables has long been considered a profession, and the people in that profession may do it for decades. You get professional service, and the restaurant pays the server to be a professional. They know that it's poor form to serve the main course before everyone at the table is done with the starters. (Not sure about your comment about drinks. In my experience, if you order an aperitif they absolutely will NOT bring you your food until you're done with that. If you order a Coke as an aperitif, well, that's your own fault for confusing them.) They know it's poor form to start taking plates away from diners who have finished until all diners at the table have finished. They don't shove the check in your face the minute you put down your fork. Granted, they are not in a hurry. But when I go to a restaurant I am usually not in a hurry, either. I have occasionally had difficulty flagging down a European waiter (who hasn't?), but usually it's no problem. It just takes patience--something a lot of American diners lack. Is that ten-minute wait going to ruin your dinner? If I want fast food, I'll go to a fast food restaurant. They have those in Europe, of course, and Europeans who are in a hurry love them--and why shouldn't they? The so-called "fast casual" restaurant we have in America and the unprofessional servers who work in those places don't appeal to me as much as European-style restaurants and the service that goes with them. So we're sure not going to agree on that point! Anyway, I think we know it's getting off topic. Back to divemasters?

 

[Kairoos]

I'm curious what/if people tip when they dive locally. I always go out on the same charter, and I've only tipped a DM a few times.

 

[mmmbelows]

I agree with most of that, including that "waiting tables" is the only example that comes to mind. But from what I have been reading here and in previous threads on the topic, it occurred to me that divemastering might be similar. I am assuming they are paid a wage and not "volunteering" or however they and the dive ops think they are legally "working only for tips." I mean, are dive ops not required to pay divemasters the full minimum wage or, if they are considered by the IRS to be "tipped employees," to make up any shortfall?

I think in the US an employer has to pay an employee at the least minimum wage, when paying them the sub minimum wage of $2.13 an hour I'm guessing they can only do that when a good portion of the employees wages will consist of tips. Then to further muddy things I'm sure there are plenty of dive operations that treat dive masters as sub-contractors and issue them 1099s which removes the entire wage issue. I've heard of dive masters working in all three ways - hourly employees, non-paid and subs.

---------- Post added January 11th, 2016 at 04:43 PM ----------

today the expectation is that a restaurant customer will pay 20% of the bill. I can't speak for others, but I always pay 20%. If the service was poor, I inform a manager, but I still tip 20% because it's the portion of X that the customer is expected to pay. If the server performs poorly, the employer can penalize the server in whatever way the employer sees fit. I don't see it as my job to adjust the server's compensation. In what other line of employment is the customer given control over the compensation of some employee who assists the customer? If a salesperson in a clothing store gives me crappy service, can I pay less for the shirt?

That is a bit of a bizarre thought process that not even a waiter would even agree with you on. It's good you would inform the manager about poor/rude/lack of service, but you must have a fear of embarrassment if you feel you're social obligated to reward behavior that you find to be poor enough that you are going to complain about to the manager. Tipping is customary, not mandatory, that's the big difference, and the traditions of the sliding scale for tipping based on level of service is very well established in the restaurant industry.