How common is a wing failure, and how would you handle it?

[Neilwood]

I think you miss the whole problem with boats. Perticularly the ones that deal with vacation divers. Many boats provide services to the vacationer croud and as such they limit what the divers can do. Drop below 100 ft and you are grounded for the next dive, no doubles, no DPV's no DS's no deco, dive with in your limts of rec warm water single tank diving. Now if you get hooked up with a more professional operation that historically deals with more experienced divers then the limits are much more relaxed if present at all. My flower garden trips was no nitrox no DPV's no dry suits. A recent carribean trip the op was concerned of our use of a BPW's. Well actually death traps as they put it. If I were out of FLA It would not be nearly as big of deal as the local gulf ops are. I am absolutely sure that restrictions are geographically defined. Its hard to justify an unknown diver that presents an OW card renting gear in 80-90f water that they should be in a dry suit.

I will make a point to avoid any of these outfits.

Do they check all dive computers for transgressions such as going to 101ft or being 1 min over NDL?
Do they restrict the use of small recreational doubles (where the gas volume is often the same or less than a 15L)?
By forcing divers to only wear wetsuits or no suits, are they willing to face the consequences of an "unwarranted" DCS hit where the diver was within NDL but was more susceptible to DCS due to cold (cold has been proven to be a major factor in DCS)? Just because we term it warm water doesn't mean we all feel the same in it. Warm to me is anything remotely near 20C but to someone used to hotter climates that would feel chilly.

It should be up to the diver to decide on the best gas for the dive - if someone wants to use nitrox and is trained to do so, why should they have an issue?

 

[boulderjohn]

I did experience a wing failure during a dive once. I was cave diving in Mexico, and I brought my doubles wing that was intended for steel tanks. It was too big for the AL 80s I was diving and with the little air I needed, so it was a little difficult to dump air when I wanted to. I was using a guide, and she recommended I borrow one of her "new" smaller doubles wings for the next day's diving. They really weren't new--they were well used wings she purchased from another business in order to create an inventory for her newer business. As we were exiting the cave the next morning and beginning to ascend as we neared the surface, I reached back to dump some air. I pulled on the string, and the entire dump valve came off--the plastic thread area was completely rotten. No problem. I just had to angle my body a little to keep the air in the upper part of the wing, which was easy to do since we were ascending.

Many boats provide services to the vacationer croud and as such they limit what the divers can do. Drop below 100 ft and you are grounded for the next dive, no doubles, no DPV's no DS's no deco,

I have done a lot of recreational diving around the world over the years, and I have encountered a number of limitations. You don't see DPVs a lot on those boats, but the only limitations I have seen involved whether you had a buddy who also had a DPV. I have never heard of a rule against dry suits. I have never heard of a rule about going below 100 feet. I have heard of rules against doubles, but I have never experienced it myself. I am not saying that boats with these rules do not exist, but I have to believe they are pretty darn rare.

 

[kelemvor]

And where is this? So I can avoid going there, I mean. Like everyone else around here, I took my OW in a DS and all my diving around here is dry, so I like to believe that I know how to use a drysuit. Also, IME an inverted ascent isn't a big issue if you're decently weighted, and the biggest risk is a seriously bruised ego I'd be seriously p.o.'d if someone refused to taxi me to a dive site just because I was using my preferred gear.

I took a drysuit course when I bought my drysuit from a dive shop. It was required, and included in the price of their suits. I didn't get a card for it though. That said, I've never used my drysuit on a boat. I got it for diving in freshwater springs. Having a boat ask for a DS card would be kind of a downer if I ever tried to use it on a boat.

 

[kelemvor]

I will make a point to avoid any of these outfits.

Do they check all dive computers for transgressions such as going to 101ft or being 1 min over NDL?
Do they restrict the use of small recreational doubles (where the gas volume is often the same or less than a 15L)?
By forcing divers to only wear wetsuits or no suits, are they willing to face the consequences of an "unwarranted" DCS hit where the diver was within NDL but was more susceptible to DCS due to cold (cold has been proven to be a major factor in DCS)? Just because we term it warm water doesn't mean we all feel the same in it. Warm to me is anything remotely near 20C but to someone used to hotter climates that would feel chilly.

It should be up to the diver to decide on the best gas for the dive - if someone wants to use nitrox and is trained to do so, why should they have an issue?

I tried to use my drysuit once (mainly for practice) on a shore dive in warm water. I only had shorts and a t-shirt on inside the shell suit. I got overheated and it really sucked. I don't think I blame boats for disallowing them in warm destinations. It could be both a thermal and a skill based risk.

 

[boulderjohn]

I don't think I blame boats for disallowing them in warm destinations. It could be both a thermal and a skill based risk.

I have seen dry suits used in the summer in Cozumel, and I have seen dry suits used in the Philippines. Neither was anywhere near as hot as I have been in a dry suit preparing for a tech dives and cave dives in Florida.

 

[NAM001]

I will make a point to avoid any of these outfits.

Do they check all dive computers for transgressions such as going to 101ft or being 1 min over NDL?
Do they restrict the use of small recreational doubles (where the gas volume is often the same or less than a 15L)?
By forcing divers to only wear wetsuits or no suits, are they willing to face the consequences of an "unwarranted" DCS hit where the diver was within NDL but was more susceptible to DCS due to cold (cold has been proven to be a major factor in DCS)? Just because we term it warm water doesn't mean we all feel the same in it. Warm to me is anything remotely near 20C but to someone used to hotter climates that would feel chilly.

It should be up to the diver to decide on the best gas for the dive - if someone wants to use nitrox and is trained to do so, why should they have an issue?

The ones I am familiar with ask for max depth and current psi. I have heard of others that ask to see the computer but that seems to tough to have ot learn all the various computers.
Your issue about forcing divers to only wear wet suits is pretty moot in 90 degree water on a 30 min dive. Their concern is that some vacation diver will get them selves in trouble with a dry suit and as such they put down the rules for the trip when booking.. I have seen but one trip where a Dry suit was worn. So that is not as much of a problem as you may imagine it to be. Most of these trips are not those that the most highly experienced would even go on. These are trips where the odds are that your insta buddy has 20 dives to their credit. Multiple times there is a class onboard sand doing their AOW cert dives. As far as the rest of your concerns I think they are baiting and ill leave them alone. Many trips are designed for those that are not in the category of expertise that most who post on here are. The boats are equipped and self regulated for that general croud.

Thye start a clock when the first diver hits the water and stopped it when the last gets on board. they call that the time for everyones dive and commence an appropriate SI. usually 1.5 to 2 hours before the next dive. they are doing 5 dives a day following up with a 6-8 hour final SI before starting the next day.

To make that work the don't need some in doubles and some not., They want everyone to fit the mold of the single tank diver with probably a .7 SAC doing 30-40 min dives at 60-90 ft and less.

These practices are not that uncommon in some areas. In the event of an incident they have the divers entry and exit recorded and the amount of gas they come back with which will be air and not nitrox.

There is noting personal about the rules its what they have to do to make their schedule work and insure the over all safety of a croud that is quite often very junior divers.

As such you would not be on any of these boats. You diving level would drive you to more specialty trips where your diving is accepted as norm.

 

[NAM001]

I tried to use my drysuit once (mainly for practice) on a shore dive in warm water. I only had shorts and a t-shirt on inside the shell suit. I got overheated and it really sucked. I don't think I blame boats for disallowing them in warm destinations. It could be both a thermal and a skill based risk.

I would agree with you I think the news said tonight the gulf temps are 89 F.

 

[NAM001]

I did experience a wing failure during a dive once. I was cave diving in Mexico, and I brought my doubles wing that was intended for steel tanks. It was too big for the AL 80s I was diving and with the little air I needed, so it was a little difficult to dump air when I wanted to. I was using a guide, and she recommended I borrow one of her "new" smaller doubles wings for the next day's diving. They really weren't new--they were well used wings she purchased from another business in order to create an inventory for her newer business. As we were exiting the cave the next morning and beginning to ascend as we neared the surface, I reached back to dump some air. I pulled on the string, and the entire dump valve came off--the plastic thread area was completely rotten. No problem. I just had to angle my body a little to keep the air in the upper part of the wing, which was easy to do since we were ascending.
I have done a lot of recreational diving around the world over the years, and I have encountered a number of limitations. You don't see DPVs a lot on those boats, but the only limitations I have seen involved whether you had a buddy who also had a DPV. I have never heard of a rule against dry suits. I have never heard of a rule about going below 100 feet. I have heard of rules against doubles, but I have never experienced it myself. I am not saying that boats with these rules do not exist, but I have to believe they are pretty darn rare.

Its all local and geared to the groups you are servicing. One boat on a flower gardens trip had a depth limit of 125. You go past that and you sit the next dive on the boat. Its all tied to the repeditive dive plan made for the group and not the individual. You get someone to go deep and they then would have to adjust the SI for all or ground the offending diver in order to keep on dive schedule. the boat used the same plan for every trip and they have a client base that those dives are perfect for. There are boats that say your plan is your business. You mention DPV's and these same trips prpohibit them as the diving area is a sanctuary and they do not allow them for coral protection.

 

[Vegan Shark]

I dive a drysuit even when it's over 90F with 98% humidity. With a thin underlayer, I don't think it's that much hotter than a 3mm full suit. And once you've been in the water--even warm tropical water--you cool down big time

 

[NAM001]

I dive a drysuit even when it's over 90F with 98% humidity. With a thin underlayer, I don't think it's that much hotter than a 3mm full suit. And once you've been in the water--even warm tropical water--you cool down big time

I agree