AOW/Rescue Diver Not Respected

[kelemvor]

I can imagine why.... 'EGO'.

The same can be said of dive operators requiring such a dive. "Your professional training and adherence to the standards of documenting your dives is not good enough. Only I can be the judge of you."

It's even worse when your training and certification comes from the same agency the operator sells. Basically, they're saying they have no confidence in their own agency and therefore the customer is going to pay for it.

Seriously, I've learned to accept the practice because of no other options in some cases. There is an actual cost involved here. Divers generally have to PAY both in time and money for that checkout dive. When I go on a dive trip, time is at a serious premium because I can't afford to go on trips often or long enough that it is not. When operators start giving divers a free night in the hotel, and a free trip out for the checkout dive, and covering other associated costs then your assertion will be true.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I've never been on a liveaboard outside California ...

Those aren't liveaboards ... they're bunkaboards.

THIS is a liveaboard ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[The Chairman]

Huh, well I'll be. I thought @NetDoc made that one up!

I've been accused of worse!

 

[Darnold9999]

I've never been on a liveaboard outside California (and those are completely self service, no DM and no check anything) so don't have much context on what the "checkout" dives entail. Are they really that undesirable? Even if you spent a jillion dollars to go to an exotic location, I would imagine even the baby dive would also have a ton of stuff to see and would generally be a good dive. Am I wrong? Genuinely curious ...

Not wrong at all. All good dives in my experience and most won't even know it is a check out dive unless you think about it. Just a dive with minimal current and a fairly shallow hard bottom. Doesn't mean not interesting, just not challenging. Personally after travelling for many hours and reassembling my gear from various bags a simple dive to make sure that everything (including me) is working as it should is not a bad idea at all.

 

[AdivingBel]

I don't mind checkout dives as long as it's not a surprise. They should be quick & free or at the least an interesting dive (not all interesting dives have to be deep or challenging, IMHO). I personally wouldn't demand to do a specific dive site unless I had worked it out with the dive op in advance which gives them plenty of opportunity to explain their checkout dive policy (if they have one) before I make any commitment. Advanced planning is key. If you just "show up," you're rolling the dice. In the end "their boat, their rules;" "my money, my decision to spend it."

IMHO, the diverse nature of divers on SB in both locale and dive environments gets lost in many discussions. As a warm water diver I wouldn't expect to tackle a cold water, low viz environment without additional training or at least a healthy dose of local mentoring. That does not mean I don't deserve certification by one of the large cert agencies. Just like (I've learned on SB) some cold water, low viz divers don't do well descending/ascending without a line, don't like not having a hard bottom, or don't enjoy hanging out in the blue. The large agencies seem to try to find a happy medium. I think the diversity of diving lends itself to dive ops looking for ways to assess their customers. It isn't necessarily about questioning somebody's certifications. In many instances how "smart" you are depends on where you're standing at any given moment.

 

[JamesBon92007]

I have been an AOW and Rescue Diver for several years now and, aside from the fact that I learned a lot, it seems that those ratings do not get the respect that I feel they deserve from many dive ops I have used in the past. Many dive ops will still require check out dives or even withhold going to certain spots until I have proven myself in their eyes. It seems to me that for many dive ops AOW and RD really mean nothing. Could this be because those shops use the classes more to generate revenue than they do to impart knowledge? Is it because these classes are basically "no fail" classes? Is there another reason that I am not aware of? Am I just choosing ops that are wrong for me? I am having a hard time understanding. Maybe I look unsafe and seem to need more attention LOL, though I don't think so. What are your thoughts?
RichH

I have a NAUI Master Diver certification. I expect the dive shop people to grovel or at least genuflect when I show them my C-Card. Do they? Not so far. When they have specific prerequisites for a particular dive that I have not met, do they require me to do them? No. Do they try to sign me up for their most advanced dives that require an evaluation dive without me having done it? Yes. Why? Beats me. Maybe it's my demeanor. Perhaps I look like I've been scuba diving for 47 years. Or maybe it's because my snorkel is much older than most the the DMs or instructors. Or possibly it's the gills forming behind my ears. Give it some time. Barnacles don't grow on you overnight.

 

[Bob DBF]

MD is a income of money for PADI and why MSDT exists !

My instructor supprised me with the MD card, so PADI got their money, but I didn't pay for it. I don't know if it was just me, or it is his policy.

I've never been on a liveaboard outside California (and those are completely self service, no DM and no check anything) so don't have much context on what the "checkout" dives entail.

There is a DM or more aboard, but they don't get in the water unless there is an emergency or are off duty. I have seen them intervene when they run into divers that are not ready for the conditions.



Bob

 

[hroark2112]

Any diver who shows up for a week on a liveaboard with a Freedom plate, 18# bright purple Oxycheq wing, and dives barefoot with yellow Force Fins should not have to do a checkout dive. Just my opinion

I confused the DM who was doing our paperwork & C-card verification by handing him my Advanced Nitrox card. The 100% oxygen limit confused him.

I think they watched me extra closely during the first dive.

 

[elgoog]

There is a DM or more aboard, but they don't get in the water unless there is an emergency or are off duty. I have seen them intervene when they run into divers that are not ready for the conditions.

Oh, I meant in the water guiding dives or, in the context of this thread, doing the checkout on the 1st dive.

 

[DevonDiver]

The same can be said of dive operators requiring such a dive. "Your professional training and adherence to the standards of documenting your dives is not good enough. Only I can be the judge of you."

If that person has a legal duty-of-care or liability for the diver, then it's absurd to think they shouldn't be permitted to assess and form a judgement over the diver's relative competency for a dive.

We're talking about a situation where some idiot can wander into your business with a plastic card, vast sense of entitlement and a deluded sense of their own competency. (see 'Dunning-Kruger effect').

That person may (and this IS common, believe me) wish to undertake dives that are vastly beyond their actual capability. If they hurt themselves, they'll blame (and sue) everyone else involved. If they kill themselves it's business suicide for the dive operator concerned.

But sure.... the customer is paying money, so that makes them automatically right. And scuba diving is such an over-priced rip off, right?!

God forbid any dive operation might put safety first...in priority over appeasing the demands of divers whose minor financial expenditures grant them a ghastly sense of entitlement...

Again, this points to some sort of fantasy that a c-card constitutes a 'license' granting the holder an entitlement to waltz into any dive operation and demand whatever they want.

A c-card is nothing more than a proof of training. It shows you did a course, once upon a time, and did potentially *just enough* to pass that course. Remember that virtually no-one fails scuba courses...

Also, very few....a tiny minority of divers ever practice their skills post-certification... it's prudent to NOT assume that the diver has retained anything like the level of skill ability they demonstrated at the time of graduation.

Dive pros see this day-in, day-out. The ethical ones stand firm on safety. The disreputable ones pander and grovel to the customer's delusions because they won't ever turn down a quick buck.

When divers visit enough unethical dive centers they start to believe that syphcophantic pandering....and coupled with their gross inexperience... it can create laughable delusions of grandeur.

They get 'insulted' when someone ethical finally says "No" and.... shock...horror .. actually asks them to prove their ability.

Instructors are deemed prudent to assess student diver competency during training. What illogical delusion needs to be raised in order to suggest that they're somehow unqualified to assess a diver's competency after qualification!!?

If you, the diver, were willing to accept an instructor's assessment to pass your courses, then you should also accept the same authority-to-assess outside of the training relationship.

Strikes me as an attitude that you'd only accept an assessment if it were positive and empowering.... but would throw a big hissy tantrum should the very same person suggest a negative assessment that limits what you believe is some illusionary entitlement you possess..