When to start considering CCR training

[kierentec]

The first time I saw a pair of divers sporting CCRs was when I was diving in a spring cavern near Ocala Fl. Since then it has been a dream of mine to one day get to dive bubble-free further into the freshwater caverns. I am an engineer and a very techy person.The whole idea of breathing a closed system intrigues me. Not to mention having the ability to get the perfect gas blend for any depth to extend bottom time.

Currently I am AOW and EAN certified with most of my dives in a overhead environment and a good portion to 100 ffw. I feel like I have really fine-tuned my breathing, buoyancy control and dive skills in general (I don't mean to sound arrogant there because I know I still have tons more to learn before I can even conciser to call myself an experienced diver).

My question is at what point should I start considering becoming a CCR diver? I don't want to be that guy who shows up completely unqualified, but I do feel like I could handle a more advanced rig. I am quite used to being methodical and checking multiple systems at a time (I am an experienced pilot and hold a high-performance multi-engine aircraft licence with an IFR endorsement). At the same time switching to a CCR and obtaining the proper training with it will likely cost upwards of ten grand, a big investment. I don't want to start down the rebreather path if I am not ready for it.

Should I start looking into CCR training? If not, what should I do to be better prepared and obtain skills for a CCR course?

Since it's the overhead environment you are most interested in, I would suggest taking a good intro to tech/cavern/intro to cave course and start building a solid foundation before moving on to a rebreather. Making the jump to a rebreather too soon without having that solid foundation can create some very bad habits that will need to be resolved prior to moving into the cave with the rebreather.

Many people say that OC skills do not really translate to CCR, and that is completely false. Trim and buoyancy are actually the same with a rebreather and OC, and those who have a lot of trouble when making the switch may not have actually had a really good grasp on them beforehand. The physics is the same, you just no longer have your lungs to fine tune your buoyancy and another airspace to manage, so it is more difficult to master.

Aside from that, a high level of comfort and global awareness in the water will take you a long way when venturing onto a rebreather, as you will have more attention to place on the rebreather and the new skills you are learning. This all takes time in the water and focused practice to achieve.

I have trained rebreather divers on both ends of the spectrum as well as already experienced CCR divers, and 99% of the time the divers who have a very solid OC platform built are the most successful students.

 

[Pinecube]

Since then it has been a dream of mine to one day get to dive bubble-free further into the freshwater caverns

Currently I am AOW and EAN certified with most of my dives in a overhead environment and a good portion to 100 ffw.

If your goal is to dive further into caverns (caves?), I would suggest taking a cavern/cave course first if you haven't already. Learn how to dive safely in that environment and become proficient with those techniques before adding the complexity of a rebreather.

 

[PfcAJ]

Look into rebreathers when you hit the limit of open circuit diving.

You need to be good at deep diving before doing it on a rebreather. Also you need to be good at deep cave diving before doing it on a rebreather.

If you aren't doing either of those two things on a regular basis then I'd contend that there's no real point in strapping on a much more complex piece of kit that has failure modes that can put you to sleep when normal scuba would suffice.

 

[Centrals]

CCR is unforgiven. There is NO 2nd strike.

 

[bamafan]

Look into rebreathers when you hit the limit of open circuit diving.

You need to be good at deep diving before doing it on a rebreather. Also you need to be good at deep cave diving before doing it on a rebreather.

If you aren't doing either of those two things on a regular basis then I'd contend that there's no real point in strapping on a much more complex piece of kit that has failure modes that can put you to sleep when normal scuba would suffice.

I couldn't agree with this more. I am not a rebreather diver but I see lots of people going that route when they are doing dives that can easily be done on open circuit. The sad thing is they do it so they won't have to carry as many tanks. I am often amazed at how some of the basic open circuit protocols are broken when people go to a breather. The Sidekick craze leaves me scratching my head how people can justify cave diving with a single first stage.

 

[doctormike]

If you aren't doing either of those two things on a regular basis then I'd contend that there's no real point in strapping on a much more complex piece of kit that has failure modes that can put you to sleep when normal scuba would suffice.

I don't know if that's a fair analysis. What's the point of strapping on any scuba gear at all with all it's risks when golf would suffice?

I couldn't agree with this more. I am not a rebreather diver but I see lots of people going that route when they are doing dives that can easily be done on open circuit. The sad thing is they do it so they won't have to carry as many tanks. I am often amazed at how some of the basic open circuit protocols are broken when people go to a breather. The Sidekick craze leaves me scratching my head how people can justify cave diving with a single first stage.

I think that the rebreather divers who are doing it to carry fewer tanks are probably diving to extreme depths where the OC deco gas volume needed is greater than the bailout volume (a small subset of the group). I don't know anyone who went to CCR for that reason.

As far as breaking basic OC protocols, what do you mean by that? Do you think that's something inherent in CCR diving, or are these just bad divers no matter what gear they are using?

 

[hroark2112]

Every dive I have ever done can and has been done on open circuit. Why do I do it on a CCR? I prefer to do so. Pure & simple. As I progress to more difficult dives, I will have the years of experience on simpler dives behind me and I will be better prepared to handle what may come in the future. Some (obviously) contend I should not be doing this. That's the beauty of the sport. So long as I'm not endangering other divers, I can choose to do my diving as I please.

 

[PfcAJ]

I don't know if that's a fair analysis. What's the point of strapping on any scuba gear at all with all it's risks when golf would suffice?

Because you can't see the stuff underwater when you're playing golf?

Duh.

 

[bamafan]

I don't know if that's a fair analysis. What's the point of strapping on any scuba gear at all with all it's risks when golf would suffice?


I think that the rebreather divers who are doing it to carry fewer tanks are probably diving to extreme depths where the OC deco gas volume needed is greater than the bailout volume (a small subset of the group). I don't know anyone who went to CCR for that reason.

As far as breaking basic OC protocols, what do you mean by that? Do you think that's something inherent in CCR diving, or are these just bad divers no matter what gear they are using?

I am not talking about deep diving. In the Florida cave diving community the Sidekick is all the craze right now and people are doing cave dives with a single dilulent / bailout tank. They only have 1 first stage. I have heard the theory is their buddy is there if their first stage bites the dust. These same people would never do a cave dive on oc with a single tank but somehow they have convinced themselves this is okay. As far as carrying less tanks it has been said by several of these divers that they went to a rebreather because they didn't like carrying stages.

 

[doctormike]

Because you can't see the stuff underwater when you're playing golf?

Duh.

Yeah, but you don't have to see stuff underwater. Unless someone is paying you to dive, it's for fun, and we are all managing some level of risk for that fun. You are making a risk-benefit analysis, and so is the OP. Why tell someone that there is no reason to go to CCR unless they are doing dives that can't be done any other way?