Another Eagles Nest fatality

[Freewillow]

Thank you Diver987, this exemplifies a path that is totally unacceptable for a dive school.

 

[RainPilot]

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A ScubaBoard Staff Message...

There have been a lot of valid discussion points raised that, while valuable, are not related to this particular incident.
In the interests of keeping things on topic, please use this thread
Unqualified Divers in Caves--especially ones like Eagles Nest for posts that are general in nature and leave the current thread for discussion of this specific accident.
Thank you kindly!

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[The Chairman]

I'm not saying that this death is the shop's fault,

In our desire to assign blame, this can't be overlooked. You, and you alone, are responsible for your own safety. You're in charge of choosing the right instructor and agency. You're in charge of your health, of your gear and of assessing your readiness to do a particular dive. There's no way to legislate stupid out of the equation. You will pay for your decisions, one way or the other.

 

[tbone1004]

In our desire to assign blame, this can't be overlooked. You, and you alone, are responsible for your own safety. You're in charge of choosing the right instructor and agency. You're in charge of your health, of your gear and of assessing your readiness to do a particular dive. There's no way to legislate stupid out of the equation. You will pay for your decisions, one way or the other.

I would argue as an instructor, that the dive shop/instructor for this diver are not completely removed from fault. If they knew the divers intentions and general attitude, they had a responsibility to not issue certification if they thought it was going to be abused. Most of our industry doesn't think like this and you can always find an instructor that you can buy a card from, but as dive professionals, we have to include motivation in our evaluation of potential and current students

 

[Diver987]

In our desire to assign blame, this can't be overlooked. You, and you alone, are responsible for your own safety. You're in charge of choosing the right instructor and agency. You're in charge of your health, of your gear and of assessing your readiness to do a particular dive. There's no way to legislate stupid out of the equation. You will pay for your decisions, one way or the other.

My first dive ever was at hudson grotto,i was veryyyyyyy scare to jump into black no visibility water, the instructor told me it was ok... i followed his recommendation... yes i was responsible for the decision i made, but i ONLY made that decision because someone told me it was OK, i would've never jumped without that OK thats my 2c

 

[The Chairman]

Yeah... that's Hudson for you! It looks worse than it is.

 

[Texas Torpedo]

I would argue as an instructor, that the dive shop/instructor for this diver are not completely removed from fault.

Before all is said and done, I bet there will be a lawyer (or three) that will agree with you and go after anyone that took him there.. Waivers or not..

 

[tbone1004]

Before all is said and done, I bet there will be a lawyer (or three) that will agree with you and go after anyone that took him there.. Waivers or not..

they shouldn't be sued, he did it of his own accord and I'm sure the risks were laid out. This isn't something that anyone deserves to get sued over. That doesn't remove them from feeling guilty about it and rightly so

 

[Texas Torpedo]

they shouldn't be sued, he did it of his own accord and I'm sure the risks were laid out. This isn't something that anyone deserves to get sued over. That doesn't remove them from feeling guilty about it and rightly so

I'm not saying they should or should not... I'm simply stating that chances are probably better than even that it will happen, should the family hire a lawyer to look into things..

Of course... Everyone has been discussing ideas on how to prevent / deter instructors from taking non full cave divers to EN. That might be just what is needed... Then again, should the family not prevail, that would probably just embolden the bad behavior = taking students there.

 

[boulderjohn]

they shouldn't be sued, he did it of his own accord and I'm sure the risks were laid out.

In the last few years that scuba lawsuits that common sense said should never have been filed have been legion. Some of them have even prevailed. My thinking on this issue has changed dramatically over the last 2-3 years.