Canadian diver and buddy rescued near Apo Island, Philippines

[PygmySeahorse]

Thanks for the video link @Kevrumbo. Just to clarify: my point was about the ACCURACY of the paper chart. How do you plot a position when the chart is wrong? (Indonesia is still working on counting how many islands it has: it's a massive government project that's been going for a while, but the ballpark was around 18,000 last time I looked.)

Would you try to work from Google Satellite view, or what? Bear in mind, also, that it's not uncommon for an island to have several different names in the various local languages, and fishermen you ask for directions may not know the name that you know, even if there is a name on the chart (there are rarely names on Google Maps).

And, yes, I agree that a PLB will *improve* your chances of being found alive, but people need to be aware that it is *very* far from a failsafe, particularly in remote, underpopulated areas of large, less economically developed countries like Indonesia (and the Philippines). Blanket statements like "Yes, PLBs work" ignore the realities of diving in countries like Indonesia (and the Philippines), and can generate a false sense of security.

 

[Dan]

Thanks for the video link @Kevrumbo. Just to clarify: my point was about the ACCURACY of the paper chart. How do you plot a position when the chart is wrong? (Indonesia is still working on counting how many islands it has: it's a massive government project that's been going for a while, but the ballpark was around 18,000 last time I looked.)

Would you try to work from Google Satellite view, or what? Bear in mind, also, that it's not uncommon for an island to have several different names in the various local languages, and fishermen you ask for directions may not know the name that you know, even if there is a name on the chart (there are rarely names on Google Maps).

And, yes, I agree that a PLB will *improve* your chances of being found alive, but people need to be aware that it is *very* far from a failsafe, particularly in remote, underpopulated areas of large, less economically developed countries like Indonesia (and the Philippines). Blanket statements like "Yes, PLBs work" ignore the realities of diving in countries like Indonesia (and the Philippines), and can generate a false sense of security.

So, Denise, please suggest a better option other than having all those safety gears (SMB, DiveAlert, mirror, flashlight, PLB) when you are lost at sea in such backward country as Indonesia & Philippine?

 

[PygmySeahorse]

So, Denise, please suggest a better option other than having all those safety gears (SMB, DiveAlert, mirror, flashlight, PLB) when you are lost at sea in such backward country as Indonesia & Philippine?

There isn't one, and I haven't suggested there is. All I've said is that you can't rely on a PLB in remote areas of Indonesia and the Philippines. Quite why we're even debating this is a mystery to me.

 

[Kevrumbo]

There isn't one, and I haven't suggested there is. All I've said is that you can't rely on a PLB in remote areas of Indonesia and the Philippines. Quite why we're even debating this is a mystery to me.

Because again - "enshallah" is not a better plan to prepare by than a PLB. . .

Thanks for the video link @Kevrumbo. Just to clarify: my point was about the ACCURACY of the paper chart. How do you plot a position when the chart is wrong? (Indonesia is still working on counting how many islands it has: it's a massive government project that's been going for a while, but the ballpark was around 18,000 last time I looked.)

Would you try to work from Google Satellite view, or what? Bear in mind, also, that it's not uncommon for an island to have several different names in the various local languages, and fishermen you ask for directions may not know the name that you know, even if there is a name on the chart (there are rarely names on Google Maps).

And, yes, I agree that a PLB will *improve* your chances of being found alive, but people need to be aware that it is *very* far from a failsafe, particularly in remote, underpopulated areas of large, less economically developed countries like Indonesia (and the Philippines). Blanket statements like "Yes, PLBs work" ignore the realities of diving in countries like Indonesia (and the Philippines), and can generate a false sense of security.

It is NOT a false sense of security -but a last best chance of being found given all the resources that you can smartly think of beforehand that can aid in planning for such a contingency.

●The less info SAR units have about your location, the larger the Search Area.
●The larger the Search Area, the longer the search until you are located.

Don't worry about specious arguments regarding local dive operations having inaccurate or wrong paper charts -any chart reference that can point to your general location with a position fix by relayed GPS coordinates along with local knowledge of tides & current can only help in a search and rescue. . . Do you understand?

Think about it @PygmySeahorse , you have a global satellite system that can fix your location in an emergency: the motivation is to marshal as many rescue resources to search and converge on your location as soon as possible before the PLB's battery expires in 24hrs (or you expire days later because of exposure & dehydration which is a terrible way to die).

 

[Stoo]

No, you need a dive canister. I got the smaller of these: CANISTER for PLB: SCUBA Diver Emergency Locator Beacon/VHF Marine Radio. | eBay
Use silicone grease lightly on the o-ring.
.

I have one of these things with the McMurdo 220 Fastfind. It's a sold little canister, but it's not tiny. It's about the same size as my 6' DAN SMB, but solid. I wear a little Zeagle down south and it barely fits in a pocket. There is a hole for a D-ring, which you could attach with a bolt-snap, and mine came with a nylon pouch with a belt loop. I may try to locate it on my tank or something since I expect I will never use it. If I do need it, I can always pop my tank off, or have my buddy grab it for me.

 

[Dan]

I guess in such remote places it’s important to have a good plan & discussion with the dive operator on the SAR options and assessing their equipment / knowledge/ capabilities to find you if you are lost at sea. If you are not convinced with what they have to offer, then move on to other dive operator that would convince you or just don’t take the chance & go elsewhere less remote & better SAR support.

 

[PygmySeahorse]

Because again - "enshallah" is not a better plan to prepare by than a PLB. . .

Actually, diving very, very conservatively, with a local guide and in full awareness of the local realities - which, in many parts of Indonesia means zero SAR ("SAR units"?!), plus fuel limitations on the dive op that's looking for you - is a much better protection than a PLB. As I said in response to the original question (Does that work outside the US?), "I wouldn't rely on it", and it now appears that you wouldn't rely on it either, so it seems we agree.

 

[PygmySeahorse]

I guess in such remote places it’s important to have a good plan & discussion with the dive operator on the SAR options and assessing their equipment / knowledge/ capabilities to find you if you are lost at sea. If you are not convinced with what they have to offer, then move on to other dive operator that would convince you or just don’t take the chance & go elsewhere less remote & better SAR support.

Exactly. I think in these sorts of places it's key to have a good operator, a good guide and to know your own limits: if you want to be within comfortable reach of SAR and/or a chamber, then most Indonesian diving is not for you. It's not a risk-free sport and technical fixes don't work so well out here.

 

[Dan]

Exactly. I think in these sorts of places it's key to have a good operator, a good guide and to know your own limits: if you want to be within comfortable reach of SAR and/or a chamber, then most Indonesian diving is not for you. It's not a risk-free sport and technical fixes don't work so well out here.

I’ve been in Bali about 10x, Raja Ampat 6x, Komodo 3x, I stick closely with the local guides who know their dive sites very well & the right time & conditions to dive in. Haven’t got blown away, yet (knock on wood).

The worst situation I ever encountered was in Crystal Bay, Nusa Penida, in search of Oceanic Mola Mola, when I got hit by down current all of a sudden. However, the guide gave a good dive briefing about such postential situation could occur & for us to stay close to the reef, not wander off too far into the blue chasing the Mola Mola. When I started seeing my own bubbles going down into the abyss, I swam towards the reef & started to “rock climb” underwater

I also like the liveaboards that provide Nautilus Lifeline for their guests, like Mike Ball’s Spoilsport in GBR, Galápagos Master in Galápagos & Palau Aggressor II in Palau. Since these liveaboards go to such remote dive sites, it is a good idea to equip their guests with such device. I wish all liveaboards do that.

 

[Cowfish Aesthetic]

This is why I only dive in still-water pools shallower than 5 ffw under the watchful eye of a hyperbaric physician.