ko tao woman hit by boat propeller

[Ian Yarwood]

Thanks Yogavnture

There are some errors in my own articles. I used the terns “diving instructor” and “divemaster” interchangeably but the divers reading this will know that Ricky Collins should have been a diving instructor to take two novices on a DSD Dive.

I will try to get the articles corrected.

In the meantime here is some advertising that is still on the Scuba Junction Facebook page.

 

[yogavnture]

View attachment 448968 Thanks Yogavnture

There are some errors in my own articles. I used the terns “diving instructor” and “divemaster” interchangeably but the divers reading this will know that Ricky Collins should have been a diving instructor to take two novices on a DSD Dive.

I will try to get the articles corrected.

In the meantime here is some advertising that is still on the Scuba Junction Facebook page.

can u join thai visa.com.............can u contact a person thier called spectator 2020.? can u ask him to join conversation here? thier was a conversation on thai visa.com . but it got shut down last week............but the conversation is still their. to view.............spectator 2020 has a keen interest in this story but i dont know why.... if u go to thaivisa. com and join ..........and go to forum section..........search word silje..............u will see a long conversation on this topic. it was closed down last week.............something fishy is going on..........every avenue for justice has been silenced.

 

[Miyaru]

This section is about incident/accident analysis. I suggest that we stick to the incident.

Coming up with a 5 year old advertisement picture as a means to make other readers form a negative opinion about a dive shop borders on slander and is inappropriate in this section. The usage of the terms divemaster and instructor shows that the writer did not have knowledge of the terminology of the diveworld. Changing news articles afterwards would be the same as witnesses changing their stories, in a subjective way after gaining knowledge.

As for the circumstances, divers who are interested in taking the divemaster course, have to make fundives until they reach 40 logged dives. None of them will be actively assisting during a course. The initial reports about divemaster trainees was probably due to a lack of knowledge, just as this was illustrated by the use of the words divemaster and instructor.
The OP mentions the use of a flag. Nobody uses a dive flag in/on the water, just a SMB when surfacing. Flags are used on the boats. If a SMB was meant, don't use the word flag. Incorrect use of terminology leads to confusion.

The unfortunate lady was killed by a boat propellor. I've been on lots of smaller boats which are used to get from the beach to the diveboats, which are out on the 2nd reef. Everytime there was 1 person sitting on the bow, checking for bubbles in the water. If any bubbles were present, the captain was signaled so he could slow down and check which way was the safest to avoid divers. Not a single word in the articles about this.

Yes, divers can get separated in a class. One student dives in a wrong direction, while the others keep going. It's a situation that requires an instructor to get his group back together. And this time, while he was attending such a diver, the other two students ascended, one of them ending up in a boat propeller. It's an accident. Not homicide. Can the instructor be blamed for this? Yes, he should have used another approach, e.g. use his divemaster. His negligence was so severe, that his license was revoked.

What else is there to learn from this accident?
Keep your class together, having a divemaster to assist is better.
If you're taking a boat over a divesite, have a lookout on the bow.

And that's it. Lawsuits, blame games and slander are not for this section.

P.S. please learn the difference between their and there. Thier is not even an English word.

 

[Bob DBF]

There are some errors in my own articles. I used the terns “diving instructor” and “divemaster” interchangeably but the divers reading this will know that Ricky Collins should have been a diving instructor to take two novices on a DSD Dive.

Actually a DM with DSD certification can lead a DSD dive. It would be good to find out Mr. Collins certification and when he certified. That is assuming he was certified PADI, if SSI I believe the certification is Dive Control Specialist.

I understand the confusion as instructor and DM are certifications, but say the job DM could be an instructor, a DM, or neither, which could happen with a dive guide also refered to as a DM.


Bob

 

[yogavnture]

This section is about incident/accident analysis. I suggest that we stick to the incident.

Coming up with a 5 year old advertisement picture as a means to make other readers form a negative opinion about a dive shop borders on slander and is inappropriate in this section. The usage of the terms divemaster and instructor shows that the writer did not have knowledge of the terminology of the diveworld. Changing news articles afterwards would be the same as witnesses changing their stories, in a subjective way after gaining knowledge.

As for the circumstances, divers who are interested in taking the divemaster course, have to make fundives until they reach 40 logged dives. None of them will be actively assisting during a course. The initial reports about divemaster trainees was probably due to a lack of knowledge, just as this was illustrated by the use of the words divemaster and instructor.
The OP mentions the use of a flag. Nobody uses a dive flag in/on the water, just a SMB when surfacing. Flags are used on the boats. If a SMB was meant, don't use the word flag. Incorrect use of terminology leads to confusion.

The unfortunate lady was killed by a boat propellor. I've been on lots of smaller boats which are used to get from the beach to the diveboats, which are out on the 2nd reef. Everytime there was 1 person sitting on the bow, checking for bubbles in the water. If any bubbles were present, the captain was signaled so he could slow down and check which way was the safest to avoid divers. Not a single word in the articles about this.

Yes, divers can get separated in a class. One student dives in a wrong direction, while the others keep going. It's a situation that requires an instructor to get his group back together. And this time, while he was attending such a diver, the other two students ascended, one of them ending up in a boat propeller. It's an accident. Not homicide. Can the instructor be blamed for this? Yes, he should have used another approach, e.g. use his divemaster. His negligence was so severe, that his license was revoked.

What else is there to learn from this accident?
Keep your class together, having a divemaster to assist is better.
If you're taking a boat over a divesite, have a lookout on the bow.

And that's it. Lawsuits, blame games and slander are not for this section.

P.S. please learn the difference between their and there. Thier is not even an English word.

i agree totally that the pic of scuba junction has nothing to do with the incident . you are correct. i only bring up the incident as it seems odd to me. the incident. i bring up the incident here because you are professional divers and i just snorkle mostly and dive sometimes. i never professed to be an expert. my use of the word flag was brought up because the info i have is that the divers were in very shallow water. like 5 meters. and at that depth shouldnt their be a marker of some sort on top of the water????? or at least a boat over the dive site protecting the area from other boats? i appreciate your comments. i take no sides in this issue. all i know for sure is that a verdict and sentencing will come out in the coming weeks and the girl is deceased. i want to make sure her death was not in vain. and that it wont happen again to another person because the issue was swept under the rug. regarding their and there. if the understanding and point is able to be got to the other person. who cares if its proper English. im dont post to be correct . i post to try to convey a point. . i hope that some more professional divers will post regarding this issue. the thais need help figuring out what happened........i hope not too many typos in my language , to my knowedge , ricky collins was a padi dive master. until padi took his membership away after the incident.

 

[yogavnture]

This section is about incident/accident analysis. I suggest that we stick to the incident.

Coming up with a 5 year old advertisement picture as a means to make other readers form a negative opinion about a dive shop borders on slander and is inappropriate in this section. The usage of the terms divemaster and instructor shows that the writer did not have knowledge of the terminology of the diveworld. Changing news articles afterwards would be the same as witnesses changing their stories, in a subjective way after gaining knowledge.

As for the circumstances, divers who are interested in taking the divemaster course, have to make fundives until they reach 40 logged dives. None of them will be actively assisting during a course. The initial reports about divemaster trainees was probably due to a lack of knowledge, just as this was illustrated by the use of the words divemaster and instructor.
The OP mentions the use of a flag. Nobody uses a dive flag in/on the water, just a SMB when surfacing. Flags are used on the boats. If a SMB was meant, don't use the word flag. Incorrect use of terminology leads to confusion.

The unfortunate lady was killed by a boat propellor. I've been on lots of smaller boats which are used to get from the beach to the diveboats, which are out on the 2nd reef. Everytime there was 1 person sitting on the bow, checking for bubbles in the water. If any bubbles were present, the captain was signaled so he could slow down and check which way was the safest to avoid divers. Not a single word in the articles about this.

Yes, divers can get separated in a class. One student dives in a wrong direction, while the others keep going. It's a situation that requires an instructor to get his group back together. And this time, while he was attending such a diver, the other two students ascended, one of them ending up in a boat propeller. It's an accident. Not homicide. Can the instructor be blamed for this? Yes, he should have used another approach, e.g. use his divemaster. His negligence was so severe, that his license was revoked.

What else is there to learn from this accident?
Keep your class together, having a divemaster to assist is better.
If you're taking a boat over a divesite, have a lookout on the bow.

And that's it. Lawsuits, blame games and slander are not for this section.

P.S. please learn the difference between their and there. Thier is not even an English word.

good post. im no expert. but shouldn't a diver who is on thier FIRST dive underwater be watched like a hawk. relentlessly? unfortunately Thailand does not let out alot of info (hurts tourism). but apparently thier were some experienced divers on this dive. and i will assume two newbies. the girls...........ricky promised the father of one of the girls (who was on the island) that he would watch them. but the info i have is that ricky had a hangover and was not around. all i can say is that in a dangerous spot (boats overhead) with two new girls under the shallow water. ricky should have been right in front of them at all times.

 

[boulderjohn]

Actually a DM with DSD certification can lead a DSD dive.

Only in confined water. In open water an instructor is required.

 

[boulderjohn]

so padi does not protect divers from any incident like this . good to know. padi did an investigation into this incident and apparently took ricky Collins membership away. and then had the dive shop scuba junction go thru additional training to keep their padi membership. but if a girl died shouldn't padi have done the training before the incident.? to prevent an incident? to not have a dive flag up in 5 meters of water is just silly.

This has been explained before, but I will try it again.

When a person is getting any certification level for any agency, the person is trained by someone with the proper certifications for that agency. Let's assume that Ricky Collins got DM certification from PADI. PADI's only relationship to him after that is to require him to maintain current DM status. It is up to him then to go out and find a job as a DM. PADI does not hire him. PADI does not pay him.

Let's say Ricky Collins is hired by a scuba shop. That shop pays him. That shop tells him what to do. It tells him how to do it. How a DM works varies dramatically from one place to another, so there is no way and training agency can tell any DM exactly how they will do their jobs once they get them. They can only give general direction. Whether a dive flag is required or not is a local law or custom. In Cozumel for example, dive flags are NOT used by DMs leading dives. In Florida, dive flags are required.

Let's say that shop tells DM Ricky that he is to teach a Discover Scuba class in open water. DM Ricky should know that he is not qualified to do that. Let's say that they tell him to have 5 divers in his class. DM Ricky should know that in a PADI Discover Scuba class, that is too many students. He should refuse to do it, but if he does refuse, he will be fired, so he agrees to do it. In that case, both the shop and DM Ricky are violating PADI standards. PADI would have no way of knowing that until after it happened. If it happens and an incident occurs, PADI will investigate, but it has no legal authority to do anything other than expel the DM and cancel his certification. What else can it do? It does not own the dive shop. It is not a legal authority with the ability to punish in any other way.

 

[Miyaru]

He was a PADI MSDT

 

[boulderjohn]

He was a PADI MSDT

All right, then that clears up that misunderstanding. If so, and if this was indeed a Discover Scuba class with 5 students, then there were at least two other standards violations:

1. Too many students
2. Failure to maintain proper positioning--yes, the instructor must be close enough to students at all times to intervene in problems immediately.