Blindly trust computers?

[Fastmarc]

If the computer shuts down, what do they do? Perfect recipe for panic if you ask me.

Just end the dive.

I usually have an idea what my NDL will be prior to jumping in, so if it fails I should know where I was NDL wise at that time. In any case I would just start heading on up.

My main concern is the amount of new divers that I come across that has no computer and have seemingly no care or real knowledge about NDL. They jump in and end the dive when they run low on air. Oblivious of what their NDL is. Many times I watch them deep below me as I slowly ascend during the end of the dive as per my computer NDL. When I suggest that they need to start planning and executing dives with NDL in mind, maybe even buying a computer.... blank glossed over eyes are all that I see.

 

[letterboy]

Ascend at a rate no faster than your smallest exhaled bubble.

 

[ChuckP]

Just end the dive.

I usually have an idea what my NDL will be prior to jumping in, so if it fails I should know where I was NDL wise at that time. In any case I would just start heading on up.

My main concern is the amount of new divers that I come across that has no computer and have seemingly no care or real knowledge about NDL. They jump in and end the dive when they run low on air. Oblivious of what their NDL is. Many times I watch them deep below me as I slowly ascend during the end of the dive as per my computer NDL. When I suggest that they need to start planning and executing dives with NDL in mind, maybe even buying a computer.... blank glossed over eyes are all that I see.

All you can do is try to educate from a mentoring standpoint - some folks will want to learn. A lot has to do with the method of approach and education.

Diving is supposed to be fun, it can be dangerous but it's supposed to be fun.

Most ops I've been with require a computer - not saying you need to understand it..........

 

[dmaziuk]

even by your example, suunto has maybe half the market. but you don't see mares/oceanic/cressi owners having nearly the same frequency of depth sensor issues and those three brands combined are probably as numerous as suunto.

I haven't looked so yes: I don't see it indeed.

With modern manufacturing techniques, a lot of faulty crap comes in batches. Suunto is buying a lot of components and got a bad batch at one point. The ones who sell fewer computers, and haven't yet bought as many sensors, haven't yet. Film at 11.

PS. I do remember seeing posts about other computers failing, just not their pressure sensors. Do you discount those failures because they're not suuntos, or because nobody sued anyone?

 

[Fastmarc]

All you can do is try to educate from a mentoring standpoint - some folks will want to learn. A lot has to do with the method of approach and education.

If I sense that they may be open, I do try.

I also come across divers with computers that never look at them or even know how they work. On one dive my insta-buddy who dived a deeper profile than I did and breezed through his air, had his computer starting beeping. I signaled him to ascend and soon saw him fixated on his gauge. I signal for him to show me and he had 500 psi. we were at about 80ft. I had a little under 2000psi. I took him to safety stop depth and we followed the others below until we reached back to the boat, taking a lot of jelly stings in the process (wore full lycra after this). On the boat I said to him, "I noticed your computer was going off.". His reply. "yeah, I didn't realise it was able to warn me about my low 'oxygen'. ".
It wasn't air integrated.

 

[kelemvor]

I'm going to suggest that was just coincidence. AL was only a distributor for Suunto (i.e. AL has no ownership in Suunto), and they gave that up a couple years ago (maybe three?) Huish, which owns Atomic, Bare, and collection of other scuba companies, has been the US distributor for Suunto for the past 2 or 3 years.

The suit was likely filed in California because the plaintiff lives in California... as do a lot of other divers.

I don't think it was either. The laws that the suit was based upon only exist in California. That lawsuit would have gone nowhere fast in the other 98% of America.

If you look at the complaint, they're complaining about dive computers that have failures like bad pressure transducers. Which any dive computer can, of course, have. They do reference someone who died using a suunto computer in the document but it seems to only be in passing and not the focus of the suit. The suit seems to be a matter of some folks' computers crapped out. Suunto replaced the computers but didn't make any design changes. Therefore Suunto got sued for millions. It's shameful that a lawsuit like this would fly in this country. Maybe in Russia or China, but it shouldn't happen here.

Personally, I wouldn't have a suunto. I don't like the way they work. However, that doesn't mean I think they should be subjected to that kind of abuse.

Manufacturers must make a ton of money selling products to Californians, because otherwise I'm sure they'd just refuse to sell there in order the hokey laws that enable these lawsuits.

 

[AJ]

Well, new divers are trained that if their computer dies they thumb the dive. No panic needed, they still have a buddy with a computer that says they're still well away from NDLs most likely...

Euhm, I don't panic when my computer craps out. I even did some dives without computer because my battery died or because I just forgot to bring my computer. No worries for me.

Having that said, how many divers continue training after certification? How many divers train OOG situations, rescue, know their SCR/gas remaining without help form their computer? We all know the answer, that's where panic sets in. If you do not practice to deal with even minor unexpected situations like a computer diying (which I consider an inconvience, not a problem), panic stes in quickly. I have seen divers shooting to the surface with even less of a problem than a computer faillure.

My whole point is: if my computer dies, it's an inconvience. Nothing more. How Suunto can be held accountable for a diver dying because of a computer faillure is beyond me. But then, I'am european and do'nt understand American law.

 

[dmaziuk]

I don't think it was either. The laws that the suit was based upon only exist in California. That lawsuit would have gone nowhere fast in the other 98% of America.

If you look at the complaint, they're complaining about dive computers that have failures like bad pressure transducers. Which any dive computer can, of course, have. They do reference someone who died using a suunto computer in the document but it seems to only be in passing and not the focus of the suit. The suit seems to be a matter of some folks' computers crapped out. Suunto replaced the computers but didn't make any design changes. Therefore Suunto got sued for millions. It's shameful that a lawsuit like this would fly in this country. Maybe in Russia or China, but it shouldn't happen here.

You'd probably have to read the original PDFs because the complaint about "not repairing" faulty computers and "replacing with new ones" instead is unbe-effing-livable considering that pressure sensors are typically welded into the body and not replaceable in the first place.

 

[kelemvor]

Euhm, I don't panic when my computer craps out. I even did some dives without computer because my battery died or because I just forgot to bring my computer. No worries for me.

Having that said, how many divers continue training after certification? How many divers train OOG situations, rescue, know their SCR/gas remaining without help form their computer? We all know the answer, that's where panic sets in. If you do not practice to deal with even minor unexpected situations like a computer diying (which I consider an inconvience, not a problem), panic stes in quickly. I have seen divers shooting to the surface with even less of a problem than a computer faillure.

My whole point is: if my computer dies, it's an inconvience. Nothing more. How Suunto can be held accountable for a diver dying because of a computer faillure is beyond me. But then, I'am european and do'nt understand American law.

Don't call it American, please. It's Californian only. The rest of us wouldn't have that bunk any more than you would.

 

[Steve_C]

Teaching OW is not remembering. Regular buddy and I added an instabuddy 23 miles offshore. A free spirit active diver but surprisingly good on air but not diving with her usual bad on air buddies. This was a dive a lot deeper than she was used to doing. She had maybe 30-40 dives at that point. We noted that we were down close to 10 minutes of NDL at 100 ft and knew she was on air. We checked her guage and saw she was just clicking over into deco. We calmly signaled time to turn dive and head up the anchor. She looked surprised but did as we suggested. We made sure she cleared the computer by the time we got to the boat. Spent part of the SI getting a lesson in NDL. She had no clue what those numbers meant other than depth, temp, and length of dive. She was used to shallower dives and just coming up on air because her usual buddies were low on air.