Blindly trust computers?

[kelemvor]

More chance of junk falling into the tank valve and stopping air flow. I've seen that. I suppose both my computers could fail along with my SPG. I would just start up.

Yeah. In either case, the fact that you're computer diving is irrelevant. You can either choose to dive without depth, time, and pressure info (which I think is a bad idea) or not.

 

[maj2]

My computer is air integrated, but I keep a redundant SPG as well as a redundant depth gauge. If anything is ever out of whack, diving is done. Never had it happen though.
The idea of blindly following a computer makes me think of a local news story a couple of years ago where someone followed their GPS down a boat ramp and into Tobermory harbour. Apparently they kept on going until completely submerged...Kitchener woman follows GPS right into Tobermory, Ont., harbour | CBC News

 

[MaxBottomtime]

From what I read there was an instance where a computer indication that there was plenty of air left and as such time to surface, but they were out of gas. The diver went OOA and drowned.

Although it was a sad outcome, it didn't need to be. I don't know what they are teaching in OW these days, but I was taught to recognize the signs of a depleting tank. An aluminum tank will float off your back around 500psi. A near empty tank will get increasingly hard to breathe the last few breaths. There are enough warning signs before a diver goes OOA. She should have begun an emergency ascent the moment her reg wasn't giving her full breaths. Other than panic, she didn't need to drown. You don't need a computer to tell you that.

 

[runsongas]

I don't think it was either. The laws that the suit was based upon only exist in California. That lawsuit would have gone nowhere fast in the other 98% of America.

If you look at the complaint, they're complaining about dive computers that have failures like bad pressure transducers. Which any dive computer can, of course, have. They do reference someone who died using a suunto computer in the document but it seems to only be in passing and not the focus of the suit. The suit seems to be a matter of some folks' computers crapped out. Suunto replaced the computers but didn't make any design changes. Therefore Suunto got sued for millions. It's shameful that a lawsuit like this would fly in this country. Maybe in Russia or China, but it shouldn't happen here.

Personally, I wouldn't have a suunto. I don't like the way they work. However, that doesn't mean I think they should be subjected to that kind of abuse.

Manufacturers must make a ton of money selling products to Californians, because otherwise I'm sure they'd just refuse to sell there in order the hokey laws that enable these lawsuits.

you sure about that? this case isn't that dissimilar from the subaru 2.5L boxer engine lawsuit to me. that was in NJ.

Subaru Settles WRX/STI 2.5L Engine Lawsuit Following Months of Discovery | Torque News

 

[kelemvor]

you sure about that? this case isn't that dissimilar from the subaru 2.5L boxer engine lawsuit to me. that was in NJ.

Subaru Settles WRX/STI 2.5L Engine Lawsuit Following Months of Discovery | Torque News

The difference as I see it is this. The Subaru suit resulted in Subaru paying for repairs of actual failures that a customer paid for. Also it resulted in the warranty being extended so that Subaru would pay for repairs for longer. The Suunto suit resulted in Suunto paying millions of dollars in cash to the plaintiffs despite having already replaced the affected dive computers.

So, in the case of the former, it seems totally justified to me. Too bad it took a lawsuit to get a company to do the right thing. In the latter case, it seems like someone took advantage of a crappy law to get rich at the expense of another. This is despite the company having already taken care of the actual problem by replacing the product.

 

[runsongas]

unless i am reading the long form notice incorrectly, the two class representatives are only getting 5 grand each. the attorneys are getting 5 million, but that is par for the course with lawsuits (the lawyers always win). the suunto settlement is refunding people that had a suunto die on them and either just tossed it or bought a replacement out of their own pocket. the ones that were not covered under the previous 2 year warranty. it also extends the coverage for the depth sensor to 10 years. the settlement is effectively very similar to the subaru case (increased warranty coverage going forward, reimbursement for those that had a failure not previously covered under warranty).

Important Documents | Suunto Dive Computer Settlement

 

[kelemvor]

unless i am reading the long form notice incorrectly, the two class representatives are only getting 5 grand each. the attorneys are getting 5 million, but that is par for the course with lawsuits (the lawyers always win). the suunto settlement is refunding people that had a suunto die on them and either just tossed it or bought a replacement out of their own pocket. the ones that were not covered under the previous 2 year warranty. it also extends the coverage for the depth sensor to 10 years. the settlement is effectively very similar to the subaru case (increased warranty coverage going forward, reimbursement for those that had a failure not previously covered under warranty).

Important Documents | Suunto Dive Computer Settlement

I've never seen a $5,000 dive computer... on the other hand, I don't own a suunto. Came close to getting a d6i for my first dive computer, but didn't. Do they really sell DC's that are so expensive?

 

[runsongas]

you make it sound like the plaintiffs filed a frivolous lawsuit as a get rich quick scheme. only getting 5k does not support that notion.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Possibly a dumb question, but I keep see it comments about faulty pressure transducers. If the determination of depth is unreliable, then so is using tables, average depth, whatever algorithm implemented in the computer.

If you don’t have a backup of some sort which you monitor, what are you supposed to do? The way I see it, as soon as you see the depth value is wonky, you end the dive.

 

[letterboy]

From a engineering standpoint it would be interesting to see the data collected on the transducers that led to this particular component being selected and how the data changed after mass production began.

Ie did they source transducer A from company X but company X could not produce enough to keep up with demand that suunto went to Companies Y and Z to supplement? However, using the same specs to build the transducers the differences between the companies resulted in failures from company Y.

#rootcause