Failed CESA in OW

[Wibble]

Yeah, that's why I don't like that new divers being told online to get steel BPs and wings. Those are the people who end up with way too much non ditchable weight.

You do talk a lot of utter crap sometimes.

Care to refine that incomplete statement?

 

[ChrisDee]

I think they just don't know better. Instructor training isn't that great. I'm sure the OPs instructor also doesn't know better, he's making it harder for himself.

I used to dive a DIY sidemount harness for while. In a 7mm wet suit and 2 AL80s without any BC.
Several divers whom I told about this thought I was BSing them... they thought I must be lying because it wouldn't be possible to dive without a BC.
I told some of them to go an watch an episode of Flipper.

Or any episode of MIKE NELSON. I especially love the Supersonic Satellite episode. Opps, sorry off topic.

Yes the physicality of diving, has been replaced. NOT lost entirely though. NOAA divers still have to be physically fit. Which I suspect is why they don't teach diving in 2 days.

Yo understand that the usual retort to this is many will point out the current safety rate and modern recreational divers don't need to be fit and or the liability risks of teaching an OW course?

I used to do moorings for free, nothing but the tank and a mask. 30 feet average. <<<<---- I'm sure this comment will flame more than a few,.....But then again, in my day memorizing 60/60 and a few other common dives, and why , and learning the tables till it hurt were the norm.

Love the Flipper comment BTW, awsome!

(Gotta warn ya though, when people don't understand something they fear it,...and they generally retort with calling you a Troll. Be warned.)

I have attached something that is sort of relevant, checklists. AND why haven't any of the national training organizations supported checklists, because quite frankly the mnemonic that PADI for example use just don't work! NO ONE can remember them. But using checklists WRITTEN actually helps with this weight issue! WE have research that written checklists work and trying to remember a half baked mnemonic does NOT work. A simple checklist sew into a visible spot on webbing,...and yet again no one listens.

LETS BE EXPLICIT SO THAT EVERYONE CAN UNDERSTAND:

Proper weighting is part of the buddy check. BUT mnemonics do not work. Trying to remember a checklist is the same as not using a checklist. A small written checklist = more and proper pee-dive safety, including weights.



"Our study suggests that the incidence of recreational
diving mishaps is substantial and the prevalence of
routine use of written checklists is low."

Proper weighting is related to CESA and safe diving period. Problem with the joke of BWRLAFF is no one fully understands how to do a complete inspection , including this "instructor." I suspect this instuctor is a relative of Debbi Snow, and perhaps received their certification from the same certifying agency.

 

[Germie]

Needing weight is something you cannot change by getting a better diver. Every diver has a minimum needed to get under and stay under. Some divers need just a little bit and only the normal gear is enough, others need real weights.
With a 7mm wetsuit and a 3mm steel backplate, I still need some weights. Also with a twin12 and a drysuit I need some weights, but depending on the thickness of my undersuit. With a ccr I need some more than with a twin12 steel with the same undersuit.

A lot of new divers are overweighted. They can drop weights if they get more experienced or directly as the instructor gave them too much. But if you have no gas left in your bcd and you still cannot get under, you need to take weights. Otherwise diving will not be possible.
So to state that a backplate is always too heavy, that is BS.
Also there is a difference between salt water and fresh water and not every sea is the same.

If you can dive without weights, that does not mean you are a good diver.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

Needing weight is something you cannot change by getting a better diver. Every diver has a minimum needed to get under and stay under. Some divers need just a little bit and only the normal gear is enough, others need real weights.
With a 7mm wetsuit and a 3mm steel backplate, I still need some weights. Also with a twin12 and a drysuit I need some weights, but depending on the thickness of my undersuit. With a ccr I need some more than with a twin12 steel with the same undersuit.

A lot of new divers are overweighted. They can drop weights if they get more experienced or directly as the instructor gave them too much. But if you have no gas left in your bcd and you still cannot get under, you need to take weights. Otherwise diving will not be possible.
So to state that a backplate is always too heavy, that is BS.
Also there is a difference between salt water and fresh water and not every sea is the same.

If you can dive without weights, that does not mean you are a good diver.

I don’t think anybody said no weights, I think the discussion is about the proper amount of weight.
My formula is to be able to hold a safety stop at the end of a dive (depleted tank) with no air in my BC and control my buoyancy with breath control alone. This can mean a lot of things in terms of the sum total of light things and heavy things to strike the perfect balance.

 

[Wibble]

This being the basic scuba topic...

To reiterate; correct weighting is all about having sufficient weight to counteract all removable, consumable or variable weight:

• gas being consumed (air in an ali80 is 2.75kg/6lbs - source);
• kit that may be removed during a dive (SMB+reel, stage or pony cylinders);
• wetsuit compression

Thus in warm water with a very thin or no wetsuit, it's possible to dive without a BCD, just using your lungs and finning/trim to counteract any differences. This really isn't possible for a deeper dive with a thicker wetsuit -- as it'll compress beyond what your lungs can compensate for.

However, we all know this isn't optimal as you've no positive buoyancy on the surface.

All of that used to be a thing decades ago before the advent of the BCD and decent equipment.

 

[berndo]

You do talk a lot of utter crap sometimes.

Care to refine that incomplete statement?

Many people, smaller, skinny and some really in shape people don't need alot of weight. The body type and gear determines the weight you need.
So when peope dive 5mm or even 7mm in the Med or the Red Sea in steel tanks for instance, many people only need a couple of kgs. When they bring a steel plate and are heavy enough, they have no ditchable weight. I talked about ditchable weight. Being able to ditch weight adds safety, especially for newer divers. I think that part you have missed.

 

[berndo]

Thus in warm water with a very thin or no wetsuit, it's possible to dive without a BCD, just using your lungs and finning/trim to counteract any differences. This really isn't possible for a deeper dive with a thicker wetsuit -- as it'll compress beyond what your lungs can compensate for.

Lol, I used a 7mm with 3mm vest and was cave diving around 100' with 2 AL80 with out a bc.
It's always funny when people tell you something you used to do all the time can't be done.

Have you ever watched Flipper? Or the old Cousteau, or Hans Hass or talked to some older divers.

 

[tursiops]

Have you ever watched Flipper? Or the old Cousteau, or Hans Hass or talked to some older divers.

You mean the way they stood on the bottom and hung onto corals or dynamited the reef to get their ship in? What part are you talking about?

 

[berndo]

You mean the way they stood on the bottom and hung onto corals or dynamited the reef to get their ship in? What part are you talking about?

They also went to 90m on air. It's still possible to dive without bc.

If y'all don't wanna believe it, I really don't care.

 

[boulderjohn]

They also went to 90m on air. It's still possible to dive without bc.

If y'all don't wanna believe it, I really don't care.

Nobody doubts that this was done. I think many people view such things as being reminiscent of the themes of classic scifi stories like Frankenstein and Jurassic Park--just because you can do something doesn't mean you should do something.