Failed CESA in OW

[Germie]

Ok, this means we do it nowadays wrong or too difficult. We have to go back to basics and dive deep air again without bcd.
I think I have more safety concerns with that than with a DMT that is doing some skills with a new diver under supervision and only has 50 dives when starting DMT.

 

[Wibble]

Many people, smaller, skinny and some really in shape people don't need alot of weight. The body type and gear determines the weight you need.
So when peope dive 5mm or even 7mm in the Med or the Red Sea in steel tanks for instance, many people only need a couple of kgs. When they bring a steel plate and are heavy enough, they have no ditchable weight. I talked about ditchable weight. Being able to ditch weight adds safety, especially for newer divers. I think that part you have missed.

Yes, of course some people are overweighted.

Your answer didn't say that it only applied to some people in some circumstances. You just threw out the "new divers being told online to get steel BPs and wings."; implying all new divers.

Now, what about the colder water divers with drysuits?
Diving in the sea?

These people should be diving with a stainless backplate to reduce the lead.

This is basic scuba, so ditchable weight is acceptable. For other divers it most definitely isn't a given.

 

[berndo]

Nobody doubts that this was done. I think many people view such things as being reminiscent of the themes of classic scifi stories like Frankenstein and Jurassic Park--just because you can do something doesn't mean you should do something.

Nobody said people should dive without bc. I mentioned the story in response to Eric and agreeing with him.

I’ve said in the past, and I know it’s extreme and I don’t expect anybody to try it, but if you want to teach someone about proper weighting via a crash course, just take their BC away from them. It’s old school and they will be forced to learn proper weighting or else they will be crawling around on the bottom.

 

[berndo]

Ok, this means we do it nowadays wrong or too difficult. We have to go back to basics and dive deep air again without bcd.

Yes, that's exactly what it mean, you got it right. I said everybody should dive deep air without bcd.

 

[Wibble]

They also went to 90m on air. It's still possible to dive without bc.

Of course. No need for planning as you won't be coming back. How much would your gas that you've used during that dive weigh?

 

[ChrisDee]

Nobody doubts that this was done. I think many people view such things as being reminiscent of the themes of classic scifi stories like Frankenstein and Jurassic Park--just because you can do something doesn't mean you should do something.

NOAA

And a whole host of people support the physical fitness aspect of SCUBA. For those that still have bodies that function.

So where am I going with this one:

"Advanced" (meaning not students) divers should be able to swim: Underwater, (not the time to mention the CO2 thing) carrying reasonable weights, fighting currents, swimming distances on surface, etc, etc, basically everything you see on any episode of Sea Hunt or Flipper. And Visa a Vie, IMO these are noble and worthwhile goals for every diver medical issues permitting. Being physically fit should be encouraged, they dramatically increase safety, and demonstrably help in any active incident. Never mind the fact that many divers were required to tread water, hands visible, (from the wrist up,) for 30 min to be certified. Other agencies still require free swimming with weights in your hands from a specified depth and a surface swim for a specified distance. And yes every capable person should should strive for these goals.

Quick question: Q: Highest fatality rate by occupation?

A: Overweight, public safety training classes. According to OSHA.

FACT.

Now this would not have happened if they were held to NOAA standards. Which require many activities reminiscent from those TV shows. Alas, but the world has turned Dive Club.

 

[boulderjohn]

Never mind the fact that many divers were required to tread water, hands visible, (from the wrist up,) for 30 min to be certified. Other agencies still require free swimming with weights in your hands from a specified depth and a surface swim for a specified distance. And yes every capable person should should strive for these goals.

I have to admit that I have never heard of these requirements. They certainly are not part of the WRSTC standards, and they have not been since I first saw those standards a couple decades ago.

Could you please supply links to authoritative information on these requirements? I would like to extend my knowledge in these areas.

 

[boulderjohn]

Never mind the fact that many divers were required to tread water, hands visible, (from the wrist up,) for 30 min to be certified. Other agencies still require free swimming with weights in your hands from a specified depth and a surface swim for a specified distance. And yes every capable person should should strive for these goals.

Duplicate post--SB having its usual problems.

 

[Chavodel8en]

[re Weighting Issue] Well my instructors were better in some ways than some of the instructors you all mention, and I at least give them some leeway in terms of the expediency to churn out students who paid for a cheap, 2 week group class.

In my OW in Monterey, 20 years ago, they overweighted me. But they told me I was greatly overweighted, and I would need to get down to a proper weight, as I gained experience.

I see I started with 35 lbs. (2 pc thick Farmer John, hood). However, I had great difficulty descending, (I held a safety stop fine, it was descending I had problems) so eventually I had 39 (!!) lbs on me.

They told me what I was doing wrong descending (sculling, not dumping all air, breathing excitedly). But I couldnt get everything fixed in the OW class. So the expedient was having me overweighted.

So they told me all the correct information, but they could not make me a fully proficient diver in the short time they had. I could do all the skills, and not kill myself.

But, as I continued to dive, I took their guidance to heart, dropped weight, and learned how to descend properly (alot of these early dives were with my shops dive club). By about dive 18, I used only 22 lbs, with a 7mm fullsuit, AL80, which I would say was my proper weighting (Ive added some biobuoyancy since then).

 

[ChrisDee]

I have to admit that I have never heard of these requirements. They certainly are not part of the WRSTC standards, and they have not been since I first saw those standards a couple decades ago.

Could you please supply links to authoritative information on these requirements? I would like to extend my knowledge in these areas.

Can only send public documents. You can request DOT, NHTSB, OSHA, DOD, SubSea stuff from the respective agency's. Air force has published their diving course requirements, the physical medical things, as well as NASA, but don't have any links at the moment. If your near Penldelton, you can request a visit with their dive Club via the liaison / public relations office. The Federal Bookstore also has a wealth of information. Here is a sample link, everyone has one, all the services print their physical requirements and standards for their classes and occupations,... here are some, I can send you, don't have the time at the moment to read them, I think they are close to what your looking for. If you do a search on your own I'm sure you can find what your looking for. Camp Pendleton Directory - Aquatics-The Scuba Center

Are these the things your looking for? >>> Navy Dive School Fitness Standards - US Navy PRT

Or stuff like this, depending upon job classification determines the swim test standards, different documents different standards: https://www.omao.noaa.gov/sites/def...r Training and Certification Requirements.pdf

I can't find any old NAUI, 1970s' instructor manuals,...they had really tough swim test entrance requirements, perhaps that tursops has these in his vast collection?

Perhaps that Vintage scuba web site has the hard copies? good place to look at how it was done back in the day.

And then there is this place, I have heard good things about them,...you probably don't want ads from a competitor listed here? Pinnacle Diving Company, LLC


And of course here are some more standards>>>> Can you meet the BMI and fitness quals? E4s and E5s apply now for Diver school

Lots of interesting reading comparing Recreational diving and professional scuba divers, I'll give ya that.