Have you ever done anything on a dive that you KNEW you weren't supposed to?

[mathauck0814]

In fairness using terms like, "in record numbers" is disingenuous.

The first cave diver who died, did so "in record numbers"

That's just hyperbole...

 

[tomfcrist]

in fairness, i was refering to the fact that people have been dying in cave for a looong time. In the 1970s, cave diving greatly increased in popularity among divers in the United States. However, there were very few experienced cave divers and almost no formal classes to handle the surge in interest. The result was a large number of divers trying to cave dive without any formal training. This resulted in more than 100 fatalities over the course of the decade. The state of Florida came close to banning SCUBA diving around the cave entrances. The cave diving organizations responded to the problem by creating training programs and certifying instructors, in addition to other measures to try to prevent these fatalities. This included posting signs, adding no-lights rules, and other enforcements.

Thus official training that is a pre requisite to cave diving today was a reactive measure from the guys that learned to dive caves the hard way. OBTW Jacques Cousteau was both the world's first SCUBA diver and the world's first SCUBA cave diver. He did not have near the gear that we consider mandatory today. However, many cave divers penetrated caves prior to the advent of SCUBA with surface supplied UBA through the use of umbilical hoses and compressors. None of them had "official" training for diving in caves.

 

[Dirty-Dog]

We've done 12 cenote dives without Cavern certification.
9 of them were the typical tourist cenote tour dives (Chac Mool, Dos Ojos, Tajma Ha, etc).
2 of them were tourist cenote dives, but in caverns that are on undeveloped land and not open to the public. The mammoth bones we found on one of these dives were particularly cool.
1 of them was to 155FFW in Cenote Angelita. The dive was planned to that depth, with no mandatory deco, ample gas and a 40CF pony, just in case.

All of these dives are technically 'beyond our training', but the cenote tours have been widely discussed, and I remain convinced that for sensible people who follow the guidelines for these tours, they are as safe as diving ever is.

 

[mathauck0814]

in fairness, i was refering to the fact that people have been dying in cave for a looong time. In the 1970s, cave diving greatly increased in popularity among divers in the United States. However, there were very few experienced cave divers and almost no formal classes to handle the surge in interest. The result was a large number of divers trying to cave dive without any formal training. This resulted in more than 100 fatalities over the course of the decade. The state of Florida came close to banning SCUBA diving around the cave entrances. The cave diving organizations responded to the problem by creating training programs and certifying instructors, in addition to other measures to try to prevent these fatalities. This included posting signs, adding no-lights rules, and other enforcements.

Thus official training that is a pre requisite to cave diving today was a reactive measure from the guys that learned to dive caves the hard way. OBTW Jacques Cousteau was both the world's first SCUBA diver and the world's first SCUBA cave diver. He did not have near the gear that we consider mandatory today. However, many cave divers penetrated caves prior to the advent of SCUBA with surface supplied UBA through the use of umbilical hoses and compressors. None of them had "official" training for diving in caves.

Well, I guess there's no need to be trained then. Unfortunately, due to the land owners and their liability insurance - you might not be able to make that case convincingly enough to gain access... But at least you'll have won your point.

 

[DivemasterDennis]

I have learned a lot from this thread, and my "confessions" seem pointless. However, focusing on TSandM's question, "how did you convince yourself it was alright to do what you did, I have a brief addition to the conversation. I and a buddy were diving a local reservoir, planned max depth 35 feet. No current, water in mid 60's, no one else around. Weather clear and dry, mid 70's. Were were in a dedicated scuba training area, we call "scuba beach." We each had a single 80 aluminum tank, and were 40 miles from the shop, 30 miles from nearest tank rental. My buddy's tank valve had a leak we could not fix, and it was substantial. We dove anyway, to see how long the tank would last, but agreed to limit our depth to 25 feet, and did. The tank was empty in 15 minutes. We then both breathed off my tank for another 20 minute before we ended the dive. Two wrongs here- diving with a piece of equipment we know is defective and that affected air supply, and also continuing the dive with one diver out of air. How did we convince ourselves it was ok? We called it a "training experience" ( my buddy is an experienced diver with rescue dive level certifications, and I am , after all, Divemaster Dennis). We were, of course wrong in our actions and our "justification." We were without any other support. Emergency training and simulations should always have support immediately at hand that is not a part of the scenario being followed for training. We were in a remote location, no shore support, no other divers around, and it was a stupid way to do a dive. What we really learned was this. Missing one dive in a cold reservoir is ok. Better to miss out logging an hour under water than to have our last dive be one where we acted so irresponsibility. Fortunately, we survived our folly, and are both wiser for reflecting on the day.
DivemasterDennis

 

[freewillie]

I really appreciate people listing the things they've done that they weren't supposed to do. But what I would really like to hear is how you convinced yourself that it was okay . . . if other divers are to learn anything from what we have done, they have to recognize the syndrome of "I know I'm not supposed to, but . . . "

I think diving deeper than your certification is one of those you will probably get away with scenarios. With just OW cert then the bottom recommended depth is 60 feet. To me seems a little arbitrary. Why not 70 ft or 75 ft. From AOW training and diving to 100 feet the presumed answer is being able to recognize symptoms of nitrogen narcosis, and since the likelihood increases with depth, then recommendations for 60 feet seem reasonable.

When I was diving to 75 feet I knew I was deeper than recommended. But, I didn't feel any symptoms narcosis. If I hadn't been paying attention to my depth guage I wouldn't have guessed I was that deep. I felt okay, didn't feel narc'ed, and thought well, what's the big deal? I wouldn't have stayed that deep for any length time, as the DM was telling me to get my butt back to 60 feet.

Actually, when did AOW deep diving to 100 ft didn't feel narc'ed either. I did my lock so fast that my instructor couldn't pull the next test out of his bag fast enough.

Not so much the depth but more of a situational awareness. Check out the Bahamas Close Call Video in the Near Misses section. Lack of situational awareness led those two inexperienced divers into a very, very dangerous situation. Excellent sitational awareness by the OP saved two lives. For my dive I was diving along a wall as well when went deeper than my training for my certification.

 

[limeyx]

Definitely taking the 5th here, but I justified it by
1*) I was either a single man, so if I killed myself doing something stupid, at least I wouldn't be around to cry about it afterwards
2) I was doing the "illegal" thing with the person I most cared about (so see #1)

I suppose there is the possibility of someone injuring themselves trying to recover my body which makes me a selfish-arse

 

[rmh84]

I'm a little light crazy. I have a little bitty snorkle light that I even carry during the day in case there is something cool I want to shine it on. I also carry 2 other lights on a night dive. My family laughed at my redundant lights, untill we went on a night dive to one of the piers in Bonaire. BOTH the DM's lights failed, and so did my mom's. I completed the dive with just my snorkle light (it's friggin bright for such a little light). I did the "I told you so" dance that day.

I rarely if ever see divers with a spare light on night dives, but always carry one myself and ensure my daughter (now 18) has one as well.

Now for my offences:

I regularly dive below 60 feet - have been down to 120' a couple times, just a quick bounce down to see something cool and then right back up, and only if my Nitrox mix supports that depth. I would NOT do this in inhospitable conditions though mind you.

I've been on guided cave dives in the Florida Aquifer (great dives by the way!)

I never, ever dive with a snorkle unless the entry demands it.

I did an 18' dive on Nitrox 10 hours before flying once (logic was 18' gives you something like 2 hours of safe bottom time)

The risks I allow myself to take are calculated and educated. I don't nessisarily think you must have a card to certify yourself for EVERYTHING, though things like caving that require more technical skill make sense. Such as NO WAY am I taking a "Boat diver" course...

 

[Dirty-Dog]

I'm a little light crazy. I have a little bitty snorkle light that I even carry during the day in case there is something cool I want to shine it on. I also carry 2 other lights on a night dive. My family laughed at my redundant lights, untill we went on a night dive to one of the piers in Bonaire. BOTH the DM's lights failed, and so did my mom's. I completed the dive with just my snorkle light (it's friggin bright for such a little light). I did the "I told you so" dance that day.

I'm a bit like that too.
On Cozumel in December the port had been closed, so Sue and I went over to the mainland for a day in the Cenotes.
Next afternoon, the port reopened, and we jumped on the Aldora boat for a couple afternoon dives. Thanks to the big tanks, even after a relatively short SI of only 1 hour, we knew we were going to be pushing the light on our second dive. Fortunately, I still had my lights in my gear bag from the day before. I had enough lights for everybody on the boat, with a backup for both Sue and myself. It was definately a twilight dive by the time we came up, and while not absolutely necessary the lights certainly made the dive more enjoyable.

On a night dive, I light up same as for the cenotes. Headlight, primary light, two backups and a lightstick on my DSMB. And since that trip, I've also added mounts for a UK Light Canon on my camera.

 

[Max Speed]

Not sure if this is against the rules or not?

My brother and I were about the same size, but he would use his air faster. So we got in the habit of switching scuba units at 80 or 90 feet about halfway through the dive.

I figured it was good practice, (at the time).

This is going to revolutionize my gas planning. Can't wait to tell my wife...

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