Marking Jumps and T's

[kensuf]

But the NACD says to use a personal marker pointing at the emergency exit, not pointing towards the route the divers want to do, which can be different if all things are well. So arrows, fastest way out, other markers can point to a specific path a diver wants to take.
And when other books recognize the possible problem of using arrows with personal meanings, I think it's logical to try to avoid ambiguity as much as possible.
But it's interesting to see that there are different positions about this. I wasn't aware.

Isn't it though?

More interesting data..

"The Art of Safe Cave Diving" - NACD, 1995, page 89:

Types of markers that have been employed during the past three decades are clothespins, outrigger clips, and plastic arrow markers. Markers should always be placed on the EXIT side of the permanent line. But remember, NO directional marker is fail-safe.

and

"NSS Cave Diving Manual: An Overview" -NSSCDS, 1992, page 91:

Clothes pins are a must at jumps, especially jumps made from points at which no permanent marker has been installed. Placed on the outbound side of the jump, they confirm exit direction as divers return to the jump. Even when permanent markers are available, clothes pins provide a personalized touch to help reconfirm direction of travel.

Note, when both books were written cookies did not exist, but Wilson line arrows (aka "permanent markers") did.

So, yes, it seems there is a lot of disagreement on the best way to mark jumps, but I think there are compelling reasons to use cookies to mark YOUR exit so that you do not contradict arrows and potentially confuse other divers.

 

[cerich]

Some teach and use team cookies. I have in the past. It does not help when there is a separation of team mates. I think our most recent fatality could have possibly been prevented if each of the two divers used the procedure you and I use. :frown:

agree 100%

 

[Ayisha]

How come it's so hard to believe that cave diving protocols are continuing to evolve and change as they always have as safety dictates?

 

[Redshift]

IANTD manual says that directional markers should "indicate the direction of the nearest known exit".

 

[karstdvr]

As an example, rumor has it, the NSS-CDS came into existence because Sheck Exley was kicked out of the NACD. And I'm sure someone will argue with me on this one.

Yeah, Ken I will argue with you on this,it isn't a rumor.


Interesting thread, which I have seen repeated on SB. Bottom line, use critical thinking in the cave and evaluate the situation. When I read a thread like this and I see multiple, "I was taught...." or "My instructor taught me...", "The book says..." but I see conflict in the statements, it tells me that we don't have a uniform method of teaching protocols, hence it is subjective. I plan for my survival, and assess the situation before me, and exit if something is counter to what I feel is safe. My basic skills I was taught was a foundation to learn,I have evolved, and change with every cave dive, because the sport changes continuously, plus systems are not uniform. Be conservative, and go slow in your approach- I have always felt wreck divers do it better than us because they will use progressive penetration, because line never guarantees you an exit, only increases your probability. When something goes seriously wrong, is the book or instructor there to save you, or do you depend on collective learning/experience

 

[Jax]

We begin with what our instructors / books tell us.

The thought that an arrow I placed for my jump would guide someone else to 'not the closest exit' was something that had not occurred until I read this thread. That would be horrible, that someone in an almost blind panic saw / followed my arrow to an exit that was 100' further than the nearest - and ran out of gas.

I will not place an arrow, now, unless on a lost buddy search.

 

[Omisson]

agree 100%

It would be nice to see agencies standardize this .... Hint hint...

 

[cerich]

It would be nice to see agencies standardize this .... Hint hint...

agree..

 

[scubaalblake]

Wow. So I could come back to a line in a low air, no buddy, silt out, or any other stressful situation and encounter an arrow that doesn't point to the nearest exit? Wow. Never thought of that. That is scary. Standardising would be great and maybe even a new shaped cookie - how about a cookie that's round - with one pointy side (hard to describe) would be clear that the direction is a personal one, rather than a public one ?


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[victorzamora]

Wow. So I could come back to a line in a low air, no buddy, silt out, or any other stressful situation and encounter an arrow that doesn't point to the nearest exit? Wow. Never thought of that. That is scary. Standardising would be great and maybe even a new shaped cookie - how about a cookie that's round - with one pointy side (hard to describe) would be clear that the direction is a personal one, rather than a public one ?

Yeah, it's a pretty awful and preposterous proposition. A lot of people have moved to using REM's (I think that's what they're called). They're like line arrows but rectangular on one end. There's a little space to write on, and there's definitely a "long" and a "short" side. Typically, the "long" side is a person's personal exit direction. Kinda like the pointy-circle you're talking about.