Blackwood
Contributor
Really? I've never heard that. Got any links I can peruse or is that just something you've noticed about yourself?
100m air dive & workup, PG
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Really? I've never heard that. Got any links I can peruse or is that just something you've noticed about yourself?
DevonDiver
N/A
I'd guess that it reduces the impact of vertigo and aids orientation - both factors that can be heavily exagerated by narcosis. The narcosis isn't actually reduced, but the recognisable and debilitating symptoms are.
ucfdiver
Contributor
Being drunk/stoned is typically less obvious sitting up than laying down. Ever got in bed and things start spinning?
(Not that this has anything to do with how drunk you are, but it masks the effects)
DevonDiver
N/A
Speak for yourself. I fall over a lot more when I am standing, compared to when I am laying down. 
OP
lol
Well, if you take the definition of nitrogen narcosis as "A stuporous condition variously characterized by disorientation, euphoria, and loss of judgment and skill..." then I would argue that is what is reduced
It's in TDI and PSAI manuals - whether you consider them to be credible sources or not may be another matter; I mean TDI also recommend redundant bladder wings... I have noticed myself that a head down descent seems to increase the above symptoms, although of course it's difficult to isolate the reason for the differences between dives. However logically it seems to me that anything that increases blood flow to the brain could have a negative effect in this case
Feet first also makes it easier to locate the site & orient yourself, and of course prevents you plowing head first into things in low viz
Well, if you take the definition of nitrogen narcosis as "A stuporous condition variously characterized by disorientation, euphoria, and loss of judgment and skill..." then I would argue that is what is reduced
It's in TDI and PSAI manuals - whether you consider them to be credible sources or not may be another matter; I mean TDI also recommend redundant bladder wings... I have noticed myself that a head down descent seems to increase the above symptoms, although of course it's difficult to isolate the reason for the differences between dives. However logically it seems to me that anything that increases blood flow to the brain could have a negative effect in this case
Feet first also makes it easier to locate the site & orient yourself, and of course prevents you plowing head first into things in low viz
DevonDiver
N/A
I think that narcosis is far more complex than that. The definition you quote is an 'ok' way to describe it to an open water student.... but (as you know) deep air diving brings about a greater understanding of how it influences you.
I did lots of deep air diving and thought I was fine, until a minor issue occured and made me realise just how much narcosis was effecting me on those dives. At no point did I feel disorientated, euphoric or lose skill. I did lose about 2/3rd of my IQ points though.
Here's a good thread that describes the less obvious onset of narcosis..
http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/basic-scuba-discussions/362711-narcosis-insidious-subtle.html
LiteHedded
Contributor
I think that narcosis is far more complex than that. The definition you quote is an 'ok' way to describe it to an open water student.... but (as you know) deep air diving brings about a greater understanding of how it influences you.
I did lots of deep air diving and thought I was fine, until a minor issue occured and made me realise just how much narcosis was effecting me on those dives. At no point did I feel disorientated, euphoric or lose skill. I did lose about 2/3rd of my IQ points though.
Here's a good thread that describes the less obvious onset of narcosis..
http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/basic-scuba-discussions/362711-narcosis-insidious-subtle.html
ehhh....maybe
OP
Yes
I don't disagree, but the distinction I was making was between the narcosis itself, and the cause of the narcosis ie gas under high partial pressures. There seem to be a lot of people who confuse them or think they are the same, hence you get people saying you can't 'manage' narcosis
I don't disagree, but the distinction I was making was between the narcosis itself, and the cause of the narcosis ie gas under high partial pressures. There seem to be a lot of people who confuse them or think they are the same, hence you get people saying you can't 'manage' narcosis
DevonDiver
N/A
They are the same. Narcosis is present, regardless of the symptoms.
I think that 'narcosis management' is a fantasy. You can learn to 'operate' under high PP, but that falls into line with the fact that well-developed 'ingrained' skills can become automated even when the diver is severely narc'd. However, when novel issues present themselves, the narcosis is still there...and only then does it become apparant how ineffective you are.
As I said before, I've done lots of deep air diving. Not bounce dives.... 20-30 minutes bottom time at 70-85m... with extended (90 min+) accelerated deco obligations.
I 'managed' my narcosis quite well in these scenarios, on dozens of dives,... but it only took a minor issue (like confusion over where the shot line was tied off) to leave me mentally crippled. Or the fact that I regularly suffered post-dive amnesia after surfacing from an otherwise 'textbook' deep air dive...
I think that you're actually safer when you do feel 'drunk'. At least you become aware of how incapacitated you are. Without the obvious symptoms... you are incapacitated, but unaware. That's scarier.
I am not anti-deep air diving, providing the diver concerned has adequate training and experience to fully appreciate the risks involved. Exposure to risk is a personal decision. However, I disagree with any belief that 'narcosis management' can actually mitigate or reduce those risks. That's just self-delusion... and a perfect example of when divers don't understand the risks...and shouldn't be doing the deep air stuff.
IMHO, of course...
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