A Wing and Hose Question

[Charred]

Not sure where to put this so I'll just try here.

I was having 2 minor issues on my last trip and I am looking for some advice on how to resolve.

My wife and I both dive DSS backplates and the 17# torus wing. We also both use the streamlined OW reg setup with a 40" primary (hose under right arm) and a bungeed 22" backup.

Both of us were having trouble fully dumping the wing. We were both using the rear dump until no more air released. I watched my wife to verify. For me, I was going nose down vertical to assure it was empty. However, both of us found we still had air in the wing if we went vertical head up and used the inflator hose. It was enough air to impact our buoyancy. I typically didnt notice it until my SS and I was double checking I had all air out for a weight check. I'd go from neutral to negative. Any thoughts on whats going on here?

Next minor problem was just for me. I carry a backup light on my right strap (typical DIR-type arrangement) held with a bicycle hose. I guess I should call it a "primary" light since its my only light and just for ledges and darker swim throughs. My primary hose was catching on the light. If I wore the up higher - hard to explain - the light was pointed down but almost on top of the chest D-ring with the boltsnap going up - the hose would stop catching. However, I hate the light this way since it was blocking my D-ring and that is my go to D-ring to put something I dont need at the moment.

A shorter light would work but I am using a pretty typical backup-style light. Lights don't get much shorter. I am guessing a 44inch hose might fix this but hate to buy a longer hose on just a whim. I'm am just 6' if that matters. My reg is an atomic z2. I have the primary coming out the bottom port and rotated 45 degrees to the right so the hose routing is ideal. Would running the hose of a side port work? It would "shorten" the hose. However, not sure I can even run it that way and have the hoses all clear the wing.

I am open to any suggestions?

 

[eelnoraa]

For dumping the wing, instead of going vertically nose down, maybe the proper way is to be in trim (horizontal), rollyour body side way (to the left), so the dump valve side is higher.

As for the light catching those, since it is the only light you carry, maybe carry it on the left side shoulder harness. I am not a fan of so call "40" under arm" hose routing. I tried and hate it. If you are switching hose anyway, just go all the way to 7ft and do the DIR type hose routing.

 

[tbone1004]

basically what @eelnoraa said. For dumping out of the bottom, go slightly head down, not vertical, max of like 30* down, and then roll slightly to the right, about 30* over. That puts the dump at the highest point and will head out that way. For the shoulder dump, one of my pet peeves is when instructors teach students to hold the damned inflator over their head or bend it. Air can only go to the lowest point so if you have a bend in the hose, it can't go any higher than that. Straight forward is far enough and going to cause less issues for you, but you are going to have a more difficult time getting all the air out via the shoulder dump on any wing vs the bottom dump.

put your light on the left, if that doesn't fix it, just buy a 7' hose and run it with a normal hog loop. I like the 40" hose routing, but it is not without fault, so if you have to put the light on the left, well I prefer it there anyway if I'm only diving with one

 

[Charred]

Thank you for the suggestions on both questions.

You are confirming we are releasing air correctly (rolling onto right side, etc). My comment about going vertical was just to explain that I was trying to convince myself the wing was empty. I'm convinced we are getting the air out of the wing, but not the infiltrator hose. How do you get air that might be in the hose into the wing? My thought was that going head down vertical would work but I guess not.

I tend to add air at the beginning of a dive and not again. How do I get that into my wing? Roll onto my left side a bit nose down?

 

[tbone1004]

Thank you for the suggestions on both questions.

You are confirming we are releasing air correctly (rolling onto right side, etc). My comment about going vertical was just to explain that I was trying to convince myself the wing was empty. I'm convinced we are getting the air out of the wing, but not the infiltrator hose. How do you get air that might be in the hose into the wing? My thought was that going head down vertical would work but I guess not.

I tend to add air at the beginning of a dive and not again. How do I get that into my wing? Roll onto my left side a bit nose down?

the hose needs to be filled with something since it won't collapse. That is either air, or water. Air being preferable since it won't flood your wing and ultimately reduce the lift capacity.

If diving a square profile, you should only add air on the descent. As you ascent, you'll need to dump, and as you use gas out of the tank you will need to dump. Only time you add air is when descending unless you dump too much.

You may also just need an extra pound or two of lead, there is nothing wrong with that

 

[stuartv]

When you go completely nose down, the highest part of your wing is above your dump valve. Thus, air will be retained in the wing if you try to dump it all from that position.

I use the same exact setup as you (except a 23# wing) for single tank diving. With a 40" hose under my right arm, I have no trouble with it getting caught under my light - and my lights are also about as short as cordless (i.e. non-canister) lights get.

I don't completely understand your description of how you are wearing your light. I think you left a word out of the middle.

But, with my light clipped via bolt snap to my right shoulder strap D-ring, it hangs down to about the middle of the side of my chest. Definitely lower than the bottom of my primary 2nd stage hose. I am 6' 1" with a somewhat big chest for my size. If you're shorter and/or thinner, maybe a 40" hose is simply too long for you?

Otherwise, I would say to consider whether your chest D-rings are mounted up too high. Or, maybe use a bigger bolt snap on your light, so it hangs down a little further. Or, you could just add a second D-ring on your right shoulder strap. Put it a little below the one you already have and use it just for your light. Then you can adjust it to ensure the light hangs low enough to keep the reg hose from catching on it.

Going to a 5' or 7' hose does have some advantages. Mainly that with it looped around behind your neck, you can spit out your reg (e.g. when you've just climbed the ladder back into your boat) without having it drop and hit anything. I have tried 5' and 7'. I went back to 7' on my doubles regs because the 5' hose just happened to get in the way of my drysuit inflator and I didn't like it. I am still thinking I will try the 5' hose on my single tank regs, which I don't ever use with a drysuit. I just haven't dived single tank in a long time, so I haven't tried that yet.

 

[2airishuman]

Not sure where to put this so I'll just try here.

I was having 2 minor issues on my last trip and I am looking for some advice on how to resolve.

My wife and I both dive DSS backplates and the 17# torus wing. We also both use the streamlined OW reg setup with a 40" primary (hose under right arm) and a bungeed 22" backup.

I dive substantially the same setup. (I've been using the 84" hose since I got my 17# wing but otherwise it's the same)

Both of us were having trouble fully dumping the wing. We were both using the rear dump until no more air released. I watched my wife to verify. For me, I was going nose down vertical to assure it was empty. However, both of us found we still had air in the wing if we went vertical head up and used the inflator hose. It was enough air to impact our buoyancy. I typically didnt notice it until my SS and I was double checking I had all air out for a weight check. I'd go from neutral to negative. Any thoughts on whats going on here?

For a reasonably deep dive, you won't need to release the last of the air until you're at your safety stop. At that point you'll be vertical.

On really shallow dives, where I never go below 15 feet or so, I use more lead, so that the wing is easier to manage.

...My primary hose was catching on the light...

Try a 70 degree elbow on your 2nd stage, if you don't have one. Cheap and easy to add, and to take off if you don't like it.

 

[stuartv]

For a reasonably deep dive, you won't need to release the last of the air until you're at your safety stop. At that point you'll be vertical.

Why? I wouldn't be.

Try a 70 degree elbow on your 2nd stage, if you don't have one. Cheap and easy to add, and to take off if you don't like it.

I just switched from a 70 (aka 110) degree elbow to the OmniSwivel clone that Cave Adventurers sells for $25. I am much happier with the OS clone.

 

[tbone1004]

I dive substantially the same setup. (I've been using the 84" hose since I got my 17# wing but otherwise it's the same)

For a reasonably deep dive, you won't need to release the last of the air until you're at your safety stop. At that point you'll be vertical.

On really shallow dives, where I never go below 15 feet or so, I use more lead, so that the wing is easier to manage.

Try a 70 degree elbow on your 2nd stage, if you don't have one. Cheap and easy to add, and to take off if you don't like it.

you shouldn't be vertical until you leave your safety stop and only to make sure you don't hit your head on anything. Realistically it's only the last 10ft or so that really matter for you being vertical or not and flaring your fins is usually enough to keep the final bit of ascent slow enough

 

[Charred]

the hose needs to be filled with something since it won't collapse. That is either air, or water. Air being preferable since it won't flood your wing and ultimately reduce the lift capacity.

Interesting. I had not thought of that. Are you saying that a little bit of air in the hose at the end of the dive is normal?

Can we go further and say that a little bit of air in the hose helps prevent the wing from taking on water? I've already realized that the more aggressively I try to get every bit of air out, the more likely I am to have the wing filled with water.

Maybe its not such a bad idea to leave that air in the hose and build weighting around it? Is that what you are getting at?