Advanced diver vs. Advanced training

[Blackwood]

...most reasonably professional dive ops/boats don't put a lot of credence in C-cards/log books anyway....they'll take divers they've never seen/dove with before out for a spin on a couple of 'p*ssy' dives....just to see if you really have a clue...then the 'real' dives begin.

I've *never* experienced that, and I don't expect that it's economically feasible.

 

[Web Monkey]

Hello,

As an instructor I have to put this up.

Advanced Open Water Course verses an Advanced Diver.

I have had many divers turn up on boats or at resorts that I have have worked at with "Advanced Diver" cards and have found many to not even have the skills I would like to see in a Basic diver.

What should we do about this, should we make the "Advanced "card hard to get? Should we remove it all together and just use log books?

It will never happen, but I have this fantasy that holding an "Open Water" card would guarantee that the diver is qualified to dive in conditions similar to or better than training conditions with a similarly qualified buddy and no DM.

Not just "survive" but actually plan the dive, jump in, have fun, dive safely, not damage anything, manage their own gas and buoyancy and safely return to the exit together.

Terry

 

[Cave Bum]

Hello,

As an instructor I have to put this up.

Advanced Open Water Course verses an Advanced Diver.

I have had many divers turn up on boats or at resorts that I have have worked at with "Advanced Diver" cards and have found many to not even have the skills I would like to see in a Basic diver.

What should we do about this, should we make the "Advanced "card hard to get? Should we remove it all together and just use log books?

Please share your thoughts.

One of the problems is the title, Advanced Open Water... What it really is is Basic Open Water 102 and we should market it that way. PADI (and other agencies) use the title as a sales tool and it leads to divers who get these cards thinking they are more 'advanced' then they are.

Having said that, ALL supervised experience is of bendfit to the begining OW diver. We should encourge these courses, but we should call them something else. (Advacnce Beginner Open Water?)

 

[DevonDiver]

I agree with cave Bum...the title is what causes the confusion.

Technically, it is correct.... an advancement of the open water training. Sadly, most people choose to misinterpret the emphasis of advanced....or are lead to do so by their instructors.

I always sell AOW as a sort of 'Pass Plus' course. 5 more dives to polish skills, increase confidence, develop a wider breadth of skills and experience.

IMHO, better names for the AOW course would be....

a. Open Water PLUS

b. Open Water Level 2

 

[Blackwood]

There is only a problem with people 'misinterpreting' the word "advanced" if there is a disconnect between how the agencies use it and how dive ops understand it.

I skim through dive mags at the shop while waiting for fills now and again and read through the inevitable "ten dives you have to do at the amazing tropical location" article, which usually specifies whether a dive is "basic, intermediate or advanced." Similar lingo can be found on the websites of many dive ops to describe the sites they frequent.

So the question is, do those dive site descriptions generally have continuity with the educational programs of dive agencies?

 

[oldschool]

Back in the late 70's, I too got my first certification through CMAS while stationed in Germany. It took the better part of a year to complete. The course was dive physics intensive. I had to first make 10 dives 30 ft or deeper with the instructor before I could begin the practical part of the training. Several years later, I got my PADI OW as it was more recognized around the world but I am very grateful for the CMAS training. I guess the question is does an advanced cert. provide the opportunity for gaining more experience or should one have more experience before obtaining an advanced certification. I tend to go with the latter. After all these years, I am still just OW (soon to be nitrox certified hopefully), but that has not stopped me from gaining plenty of knowledge, skills and experience. No one has ever asked what my cert. level is before diving with me just as I have not asked others. Whoever has the most experience (which is not necessarily the highest cert. level) and knowledge of the dive site takes the lead. I try to approach each dive as a new opportunity to gain more experience, skills, and confidence.

 

[Mayor]

That has always been a issue with me as well.

I think NASDS & SSI were on the right track with the experience requirement. They too have fallen short. While I am not a GUE fan, so far, I have yet to encounter a true practitioner that did not appear to be a qualified diver. I think going from landlubber to advanced open water in a week not only cheapens the designation, it creates a door that greed can open.

Unfortunately, we as an industry as a whole, are not prepared to manage all the angles.

Very well said!

 

[Jim Lapenta]

It will never happen, but I have this fantasy that holding an "Open Water" card would guarantee that the diver is qualified to dive in conditions similar to or better than training conditions with a similarly qualified buddy and no DM.

Not just "survive" but actually plan the dive, jump in, have fun, dive safely, not damage anything, manage their own gas and buoyancy and safely return to the exit together.

Terry

I can say this with my students. They also know that this sport can kill them very quickly if they push themselves too far too fast.

 

[Wayward Son]

after 36 years, I guess I should get my AOW card...

 

[bsee65]

There is only a problem with people 'misinterpreting' the word "advanced" if there is a disconnect between how the agencies use it and how dive ops understand it.

I skim through dive mags at the shop while waiting for fills now and again and read through the inevitable "ten dives you have to do at the amazing tropical location" article, which usually specifies whether a dive is "basic, intermediate or advanced." Similar lingo can be found on the websites of many dive ops to describe the sites they frequent.

So the question is, do those dive site descriptions generally have continuity with the educational programs of dive agencies?

While this is one problem, it isn't the "only" problem. If a couple divers walk away with their "Advanced" certifications and decide to try an "Advanced" dive together, they could end up in serious trouble. No dive op is required for this to turn bad. The instructors have to ensure that students receive an accurate assessment of their skills and limitations. They should provide thoughts on how to improve and solidify skills beyond the training class, and how and when it might be appropriate to further advance certification levels.