After your ow course, were you able to dive without Dm/instr?

[DreadnoughtNH]

The discussion of training shortcomings in this thread seems focused on agencies not wanting to flunk students. I don't think I should have been flunked; I think they should have taught me more.

My OW course did a **** job of teaching bouyancy control. The PADI manual emphasizes taking slow, deep breaths. Italics in the original--I just checked. Nowhere does it say that breathing as deep as you can will have you bouncing all over the place; I had to relearn to just breathe normally from one of my AOW instructors (and still not the book.) Nor did my OW course teach me to exhale fully while deflating my BCD to get under initially. Fortunately, unlike (apparently) many OW courses, they didn't overweight me, so it was a little tricky to get down; no one offered me any tips on that (there were about 5-6 instructors and assistants in all, 3 at a time during the first 3 ocean dives) until the last guy on the last day advised me to use my arms to push myself down.

Dive planning was even more neglected. The manual gives an example in which you and your buddy agree that 50 bar/500 psi is ample reserve pressure, and "based on the depth" (not specified, though presumably 60 feet or less?) "you agree that you want to save 20 bar/300 psi for [your ascent and safety stop.]" Then it walks you through the math of figuring out your turn pressure, but never says anything more about where those figures came from. It then gives you an exercise in which, "due to conditions" (what conditions? Current? Low viz? Surf? Drunk captain? A sociopath in the White House having access to the nuclear codes? All of the above?) "...we are planning very conservatively," which in this case means 800 psi reserve and 500 for ascent. Which figures should we use and when? The book is silent. My instructors didn't cover this at all in class; when I asked they gave vague answers. On the final checkout dive, we were to plan the dive with our buddies and then share the plan with the group. I was in a trio and suggested we use the 500/300 numbers from the first sample, since we'd just assessed conditions and, as confirmed by our instructor, they were "ideal." One of my buddies brought up the rule of thirds, which wasn't mentioned in the course but he'd heard about somehow. My other buddy suggested taking the average of my number and the other guy's, so we did. Our instructor said it wasn't conservative enough but didn't explain why. The next buddy pair exchanged glances and offered a more conservative number. The instructor said that was fine, but that we wouldn't be turning the dive at the turn pressure we'd picked; we'd turn it when he said to. I felt like this was defeating the purpose, but at this point I was so tired of being that student that I didn't bother; just took my cert and vowed to get more and better instruction somewhere else before I dived alone.

Also, the predive checklist--BWRAF--says to test breathe your regulator two or three breaths. Then, in a separate sentence, it says to check your air pressure gauge to be sure it shows a full cylinder. Nowhere does it say or imply, nor did my instructors mention, that you should be watching the gauge while you take those breaths to be sure the needle doesn't drop suddenly, which could indicate your air was turned off after having been turned on. I learned that, not from OW, not from AOW, but from reading Diver Down, the Red Asphalt of scuba diving. And I used that knowledge just this past weekend, when a "helpful" boat captain mistakenly turned off my air--but I caught it before splashing in.

I've learned so much from the independent reading I've done and the pros I've had a chance to interrogate, stuff I feel I should've gotten from my OW course. I executed all but one of the skills correctly on the first try; the remaining one, underwater compass navigation, wasn't itself the issue so much as I lost control of my bouyancy and had to do it over. The instructors I've had since OW have all told me my bouyancy control was better than most people they've seen with my level of experience, and I gather from the groups I've dived with that my air consumption is about average for where I am, and it's getting better. I missed maybe 2 questions in all of the tests and quizzes in the entire course. I'm capable. I just needed to be given more.

Great post! And your second sentence is right on the money: I wish they taught me more in OW before releasing me to the wild. I grew up in and on the water, mucking around in boats, changing zincs in snorkel gear, etc., so I was pretty comfortable in the water. I think more pool time and more in-water rehashing of skills would have been useful. I also think PPB should be mandatory for OW certification (that "slow deep breath" stuff had me rocketing up and down in the water column). I think you should be able to demonstrate hover within a foot of depth or so by the end of OW (or maybe AOW).

My frustration is honestly more towards unconscientious divers; unconscientious towards their safety, unconscientious towards their fellow divers, unconscientious towards the reefs and environments they dive on, unconscientious towards the critters who live there. I realize that some of that cannot be taught; many divers (like many people) are just ***holes.

Re: your tank being turned off, I'm SO paranoid about that. I check it about three times as I'm donning my rig, and have my buddy check it before jumping in. And then clocking my six every so often for that evil octopus that's trying to twist my tank.

 

[Esprise Me]

NOBODY warns you about the octopus! Do I have to take Octopus Awareness now too?

 

[DreadnoughtNH]

NOBODY warns you about the octopus! Do I have to take Octopus Awareness now too?

Yup, it's a PADI elective. CADS
Cephalapod Awareness and Defensive Strategies

 

[jlcnuke]

Was I "able" to dive without a professional after I was initially certified? Definitely. I did so in fact with just friends who weren't certified much longer than I was at the time. Was I "competent"? Nope, but I was "safe enough" and "knew enough" to avoid doing harm to myself, others, or the environment. I attribute much of that to my first instructor doing an excellent job of making sure I knew the theory, could comfortably do the "skills", and making sure I understood that I only knew a little.

More than a decade later, I got certified again, with a buddy on his first cert, and I can say the level of competence I would have had coming out of that course was NOT as high as my previous course. In fact, I considered reporting that instructor/shop to PADI as I watched my buddy on his last checkout dive "snorkel with a tank" and still get certified. The courses had pretty much the same base material, but the instructor's desire to make us a competent diver were obviously very different. My first instructor was teaching his students to be his dive buddies, the last OW instructor was clearly ensuring the "technical requirements to pass were reasonably met".

I've taken a liking to liveaboard dive trips because the ones I've done are "give a dive site brief, then let the divers go dive" and I much prefer that to being guided along and told when to surface etc.

From dive 5 to dive 25 my buoyancy, navigation, air consumption, and overall competency as a diver skyrocketed. I've learned quite a bit since then, and I'm still accumulating the skills/knowledge/experience I'd like to someday possess as a diver, but I think I've come a long way and I have no qualms about helping out newer or less confident divers, even though relative to many here I've only been diving for 2 seconds..

 

[Esprise Me]

What does "snorkel with a tank" mean?

 

[jlcnuke]

What does "snorkel with a tank" mean?

He was breathing from a tank, but could have been breathing from a snorkel since he couldn't go down.

 

[Neilwood]

Was I "able" to dive without a professional after I was initially certified? Definitely. I did so in fact with just friends who weren't certified much longer than I was at the time. Was I "competent"? Nope, but I was "safe enough" and "knew enough" to avoid doing harm to myself, others, or the environment. I attribute much of that to my first instructor doing an excellent job of making sure I knew the theory, could comfortably do the "skills", and making sure I understood that I only knew a little.

More than a decade later, I got certified again, with a buddy on his first cert, and I can say the level of competence I would have had coming out of that course was NOT as high as my previous course. In fact, I considered reporting that instructor/shop to PADI as I watched my buddy on his last checkout dive "snorkel with a tank" and still get certified. The courses had pretty much the same base material, but the instructor's desire to make us a competent diver were obviously very different. My first instructor was teaching his students to be his dive buddies, the last OW instructor was clearly ensuring the "technical requirements to pass were reasonably met".

I've taken a liking to liveaboard dive trips because the ones I've done are "give a dive site brief, then let the divers go dive" and I much prefer that to being guided along and told when to surface etc.

From dive 5 to dive 25 my buoyancy, navigation, air consumption, and overall competency as a diver skyrocketed. I've learned quite a bit since then, and I'm still accumulating the skills/knowledge/experience I'd like to someday possess as a diver, but I think I've come a long way and I have no qualms about helping out newer or less confident divers, even though relative to many here I've only been diving for 2 seconds..

This is a really important point - a good instructor will teach you to be a good dive buddy, a poor instructor will only teach what is absolutely needed to pass the course. The acid test for any OW course should be "Would I let my loved ones dive with that diver and feel safe about it?".

I scored on my OW course in that not only had I paid extra for 1-1 tuition (worth it imho) but also had an instructor who was teaching people to dive. I am trying to arrange for my niece to do her OW (at 14) and would have no hesitation in suggesting the same instructor.

 

[Edward3c]

During Saturday’s BSAC training event in West Scotland I’ll encourage 2 Ocean Divers to go in together without an instructor or guide. I usually find they enjoy the challenge of executing their own dive. It also boosts their confidence.

 

[Storker]

Was I "able" to dive without a professional after I was initially certified? Definitely. I did so in fact with just friends who weren't certified much longer than I was at the time. Was I "competent"? Nope, but I was "safe enough" and "knew enough" to avoid doing harm to myself, others, or the environment.

I believe that this is the most almost anyone can expect with a still warm OWD (or equivalent) cert in their pocket, but also the minimum that should be expected.

And that's why I'm a big fan of the European dive club system. A good club takes you in, pairs you up with a more experienced member and mentors you all the way from n00b to someone the other members want to dive with, also for their own sake. Given the amount of mentoring I've received from my more experienced clubmates since I was a n00b, I'm more than willing to occasionally buddy up with a n00b to help developing them into someone I'd like to buddy up with on any dive. It's how I'm paying back my debt to my community

 

[Bert van den Berg]

My route to my Open Water certificate was a bit unusual.

I had been buddy diving and solo diving for many years with my wonderful wife dutifully following me on the surface in a dinghy.

After 35 years of this she met a few other female divers and decided to learn how to dive. I'm a horrible teacher so she took a PADI OW class and asked me to take the class with her. We both got certified about 7 years ago and never had any dive operators question us when we opted to dive without a dive master or guide.