After your ow course, were you able to dive without Dm/instr?

After your ow course, was you able to dive without Dm/instr?


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BSAC now holds the following accreditations, which are now recognised worldwide:

BSAC qualification EN/ISO standard
Discovery Diver ISO 24801-1
Ocean Diver EN 14153-2/ISO 24801-2 - 'Autonomous Diver'
Dive Leader EN 14153-3/ISO 24801-3 - 'Dive Leader'
Open Water Instructor EN 14413-2/ISO 24802-2 - 'Instructor Level 2'
Sports Diver ISO 11107 – ‘Nitrox diving’
Nitrox Gas Blender ISO 13293 – ‘Level 1 Gas Blender’
Mixed Gas Blender ISO 13293– ‘Level 2 Gas Blender’
Snorkelling Guide ISO 13970 – ‘Snorkelling Guide’
 
Yes, all this talk about ISO and accreditation is wonderful and good. Just wonderful.

But where the rubber meets the road is all the accreditation and certification translating into teaching divers to dive safely, with the bonus of diving well. How many OW divers simply get handed their OW (and even higher level) certifications, but can barely demonstrate the basic requirements?

I'm putting the resort and vacation destination operations under the magnifying glass specifically here. I do recognize that these agents are balancing the combined pressure of meeting any professional requirements set by PADI or other agency, AND making sure the student/guest is having a good time. If an agent tells the student/guest, "I'm sorry, you cannot prove competency to become an OW diver," how do you think that guest is going to react? Are they going to write a glowing review of the operation, and explain that "yes, they were right, I'm a menace underwater and shouldn't be trusted with anything sharper than a spoon" ? I don't think so. TripAdvisor, Yelp, and the internet in general are the public arbitors of "recommended places" not PADI or ScubaBoard. And if you read the "terrible" diving reviews, you will note that the reviewer is obviously a poor diver (I just finished reading a review where the DM 'did not monitor the gages of all the divers in the group').

How does this get addressed, or do I just need to take a deep breath (pun slightly intended) and just keep doing my thing finding those operations appealing to those divers who are skilled, and will only certify those who can successfully complete the competencies?
 
@DreadnoughtNH, Some operators require say 25 dives experience. Not a perfect solution. But flailing about is not much fun. Fewer dangerous flailing divers seem left after 25 dives. That may smack of abandoning the 'young', but if you're on vacation and not running the training programs...? At home, helping out is a good thing, or abroad if possible.

A class like Fundamentals, which I haven't taken, or other tech intro class, may help speed your own improvement. Catching tips on live aboards may not be the most efficient way to do that.

Expressing disappointment in earlier training levels, to operators, when your potential fellow students seem to not be comfortably with basic skills while in control of buoyancy, body position, and depth may help shift the mind set. As that is the OW training list. Or insisting "why the **** would you teach us that kneeling on the sand?"

That *may* nudge the agencies to enforce their rules for that more, and structure their training toward it. Which *may* have an impact on problematic training operators. Maybe.... (see frequent conversations here about teaching neutral)
 
But where the rubber meets the road is all the accreditation and certification translating into teaching divers to dive safely, with the bonus of diving well. How many OW divers simply get handed their OW (and even higher level) certifications, but can barely demonstrate the basic requirements?

Standards are all well and good, however since there is no ongoing oversite, an instructor can teach or omit anything they want. And should there be a casulty reported to an agency, the incident is investigated, not the systemic issues that may have forced the instructor to deviate from standards in an ongoing basis to keep his job.



Bob
 
I haven't read through this thread, but how long ago/where someone did their o/w might affect the poll results. It might be more common for those who certified decades ago to have been autonomous from the start, whereas newer divers today seem to be less autonomous.

I was certified 17 years ago and immediately did both LDS dives and dives with buddies. Here in the Great Lakes, we don't tend to have DM-led dives, so you learn to be self-reliant pretty quickly.
 
I have no arguments with the previous posts. If you are comfortable in water, a "quickie" course will be OK. Then be careful when you start diving unsupervised--ie. use common sense and don't do anything stupid. If you're not comfortable in water, look for an agency that gives you like 100 pool hours---and pay for it.

re--My earlier question: There is a difference between certified in conditions "equal to or better" and conditions "SIMILAR to or better".
--Mr. Nitpicky.
 
I certified through PADI twenty one years ago. Our instructor was an ex Navy guy who was old school. We were taught 130’ limit using PADI tables. We were cleared to plan and execute a dive with another OW certified buddy on our own.
On my fifth dive (first dive out of OW), I found myself on a charter boat in Monterey diving a 100’ wall on the outside of Point Lobos in 49 degree water with another fresh out of OW buddy of mine. We had ball! Never gave it a second thought. The captain didn’t seem to care either. As long as we came back alive and not bent he was cool.
 
The discussion of training shortcomings in this thread seems focused on agencies not wanting to flunk students. I don't think I should have been flunked; I think they should have taught me more.

My OW course did a **** job of teaching bouyancy control. The PADI manual emphasizes taking slow, deep breaths. Italics in the original--I just checked. Nowhere does it say that breathing as deep as you can will have you bouncing all over the place; I had to relearn to just breathe normally from one of my AOW instructors (and still not the book.) Nor did my OW course teach me to exhale fully while deflating my BCD to get under initially. Fortunately, unlike (apparently) many OW courses, they didn't overweight me, so it was a little tricky to get down; no one offered me any tips on that (there were about 5-6 instructors and assistants in all, 3 at a time during the first 3 ocean dives) until the last guy on the last day advised me to use my arms to push myself down.

Dive planning was even more neglected. The manual gives an example in which you and your buddy agree that 50 bar/500 psi is ample reserve pressure, and "based on the depth" (not specified, though presumably 60 feet or less?) "you agree that you want to save 20 bar/300 psi for [your ascent and safety stop.]" Then it walks you through the math of figuring out your turn pressure, but never says anything more about where those figures came from. It then gives you an exercise in which, "due to conditions" (what conditions? Current? Low viz? Surf? Drunk captain? A sociopath in the White House having access to the nuclear codes? All of the above?) "...we are planning very conservatively," which in this case means 800 psi reserve and 500 for ascent. Which figures should we use and when? The book is silent. My instructors didn't cover this at all in class; when I asked they gave vague answers. On the final checkout dive, we were to plan the dive with our buddies and then share the plan with the group. I was in a trio and suggested we use the 500/300 numbers from the first sample, since we'd just assessed conditions and, as confirmed by our instructor, they were "ideal." One of my buddies brought up the rule of thirds, which wasn't mentioned in the course but he'd heard about somehow. My other buddy suggested taking the average of my number and the other guy's, so we did. Our instructor said it wasn't conservative enough but didn't explain why. The next buddy pair exchanged glances and offered a more conservative number. The instructor said that was fine, but that we wouldn't be turning the dive at the turn pressure we'd picked; we'd turn it when he said to. I felt like this was defeating the purpose, but at this point I was so tired of being that student that I didn't bother; just took my cert and vowed to get more and better instruction somewhere else before I dived alone.

Also, the predive checklist--BWRAF--says to test breathe your regulator two or three breaths. Then, in a separate sentence, it says to check your air pressure gauge to be sure it shows a full cylinder. Nowhere does it say or imply, nor did my instructors mention, that you should be watching the gauge while you take those breaths to be sure the needle doesn't drop suddenly, which could indicate your air was turned off after having been turned on. I learned that, not from OW, not from AOW, but from reading Diver Down, the Red Asphalt of scuba diving. And I used that knowledge just this past weekend, when a "helpful" boat captain mistakenly turned off my air--but I caught it before splashing in.

I've learned so much from the independent reading I've done and the pros I've had a chance to interrogate, stuff I feel I should've gotten from my OW course. I executed all but one of the skills correctly on the first try; the remaining one, underwater compass navigation, wasn't itself the issue so much as I lost control of my bouyancy and had to do it over. The instructors I've had since OW have all told me my bouyancy control was better than most people they've seen with my level of experience, and I gather from the groups I've dived with that my air consumption is about average for where I am, and it's getting better. I missed maybe 2 questions in all of the tests and quizzes in the entire course. I'm capable. I just needed to be given more.
 
Esprise Me, Very good post. I learned a lot of that stuff after OW as well. And many more things. How much can be covered in 2 pool days? Did you do e learning--were any of these "extras" mentioned there?
 
No, I did the traditional classroom/book/ video thing. I would be surprised if e-learning had more content.
 
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