Agencies?

[Super Noob 1258]

What do you guys think of the differences between GUE and UTD? I am looking to "officially" go DIR, and am now faced with the choice of agency. I am leaning towards UTD as they offer side mount, and have a training facility within long weekend driving trip of my house. Any reason to go one over the other?

 

[lv2dive]

Looks like you have answered your own question.

 

[Adobo]

What do you guys think of the differences between GUE and UTD? I am looking to "officially" go DIR, and am now faced with the choice of agency. I am leaning towards UTD as they offer side mount, and have a training facility within long weekend driving trip of my house. Any reason to go one over the other?

Why is it important to go "officially" DIR? Why is that the objective?

GUE instructors teach a very specific approach to diving. UTD instructors teach an approach to diving. The two approaches overlap in some areas but are very different in others. As you've discovered, one aspect where they differ is sidemount - UTD teaches it, GUE does not.

In my opinion, going "officially" DIR is really beside the point. Investigate both the GUE approach and UTD approach. Pick the approach that you think best fits your goals and objectives. If the approach you wind up with is not considered DIR, who cares?

Incidentally, many would argue that side mount is very much not DIR. In its "original" form, it is an approach that is less well suited for team diving than backmount. And while it is a great tool to for some very specific dives, its usage outside of those dives introduces unnecessary complexities.

I think UTD wanted to make sidemount more friendly to team diving by introducing the Z-manifold. If you are really convinced that sidemount is what you want, you should seek some input from people who dive sidemount regularly and see if they have favorable opinions on the Z-manifold.

 

[TSandM]

Who are the people you want to dive with? That's probably the biggest determining factor. If your area is rich in people from one group or the other, it will make it that much easier to find folks to dive with, who will follow the protocols you were taught and who are happy with the equipment you are using. If you adopt a sidemount or rebreather setup a la UTD, you may find it difficult to find GUE divers who are real happy about doing any significant dives with you. Team really does matter.

 

[PfcAJ]

If you want real dir, utd it's it. Their side mount and ccr nonsense is first class goobery stroke nonsense designed to separate you from your money, and I find both of those programs to be unsafe and without merit.

Utd also has an unreasonable emphasis on ratio deco (more of a backup thing in gue rather than the primary planning tool, more or less).

Utd also teaches not to mark stage bottles, which is a great way to end up dead. Their only justification is to save a buck, which is an awful reason.

 

[decompression]

I have dove with and personally trained with some outstanding UTD instructors on the mainland, pm me and I can try to answer some questions for you. Cheers!

 

[TSandM]

If you are in South Florida, as your information suggests, you are probably better off hooking up with a GUE instructor, because there isn't much UTD in Florida.

Despite what AJ writes, UTD is not to be rejected out of hand. We have, in Seattle, two active UTD instructors and a GUE instructor, and all three have produced a number of students over the last few years. We dive together. Things work. We do not have the sidemount and rebreather stuff happening here, which helps; UTD-trained OW divers and GUE-trained OW divers are completely compatible, and the standards, at least here, are quite similar. I am GUE Fundamentals and Cave 1; 5thD-X Rec 2 and 3 (precursor to UTD) and UTD Tech 1, so I'm one of the few divers you can talk to who has trained with both agencies. I have personal opinions about both, but the bottom line is that either will lead you to a standardized system among skilled divers, and that's a good thing.

If you are aiming at serious technical or cave diving, you probably need to choose a camp. As the dives you contemplate get higher and higher risk, your potential companions are going to get more and more picky about what they want to do. There are sufficiently divergent protocols between the two agencies to make some divers really uncomfortable. AJ has pointed out one of them.

If you want to talk about this more in private, please feel free to PM me, and I'll feel free to make my opinions known

 

[Super Noob 1258]

Why is it important to go "officially" DIR? Why is that the objective?

I didn't choose my words well. My goal isn't to be officially DIR, I have just decided to seek formal training (rather than an amalgam of pointers and tennets gathered up from outdated texts and message boards).

I'll need to take a look at my priorities and see where grad school takes me. Thanks for your advice.

 

[Pullmyfinger]

I considered UTD at first, but I decided I would look at what training progression I wanted to follow and not just look at Fundamentals level training.

All things considered, I chose GUE and made arrangements to have instructors travel to where I live.

UTD seems to have spun off in different directions. Directions that I wasn't interested in.

Side mount, online classes, and z-system configurations didn't resemble anything that I was looking for.
I'm not interested in progressing in those directions.

Because of that, I chose the GUE route.

I would imagine, for someone wanting to move into side mount, or the other things they are developing, UTD would be a good choice.

I guess the best bet is to determine where you want to end up and go from there.

-Mitch

 

[ucfdiver]

I find it interesting that someone can create a CCR setup, sidemount setup, and market each all within <2 years-- that's a TON of experimental diving when you're doing a dozen instructor clinics and classes. When you think about how long it took Lamar Hires, Bill Rennaker, Woody Jasper, etc to develop their sidemount setups before they started marketing them it puts it in perspective just how much profit is driving the organization. Go read how well experienced CCR divers like their CCR setup on rebreatherworld and go read what sidemount divers think of their setup on cavediver.net and I think it will alarm you.

I don't feel comfortable recommending UTD to anyone, and when they first came out I thought their ideas were GREAT. Shame too, they had some great ideas (shorter classes broken up so students can have progressive learning, online content the student can watch to better prepare for class, community forums to discuss training after class, etc).