Always going forward because I can't find reverse...

[Storker]

that looks so easy.....

Sure does. And was totally unable to do it, until I buddied up with a mate who was willing to mentor me. Now I can at least do something that's almost, but not quite, entirely unlike a frog kick. You'll probably never see me back-kicking for any distance, but at least I can back far enough off from my subject to swim around it, or turn in another direction, without having to push off from the bottom or the structure.

 

[Patoux01]

Oh and just a point in general, the back kick uses the sides of the fin for the thrust, if you don't have rigid, wide-ish sided fins you will have to get creative.

Not really, it works with my aqualung caravelle fins, which aren't very thick.

 

[AJ]

You can do back kick without fins, but you can't do a frog kick without fins. At least not an effective one

Back kick for me was the hardest kick to learn. What it takes:
- stable platform (not horizontal means going up or down and unstability);
- Really slowly perform the kick. Really slowly, otherwise you will go forward.
- Take your time between kicks to regain your platform.

Once you master it, it's the best kick you will ever learn.

 

[Neilwood]

Very good kick to have in the arsenal. Definitely worth spending a few sessions in a pool or time at a safety stop practising it after getting some hint from someone that is good at it (doesn't have to be an instructor TBH).

Was I the only one that thought of this with the title?

 

[boulderjohn]

Oh and just a point in general, the back kick uses the sides of the fin for the thrust, if you don't have rigid, wide-ish sided fins you will have to get creative.

I first learned to back kick learning one technique. My tech instructor really didn't teach it to us, and in hindsight I suspect he did not then feel good about his own ability to demonstrate it. A friend and I looked at a bunch of videos and eventually got the hang of it. The propelling force came from the front of the fin--the reverse of a frog kick.

Then I saw a video in which someone advocated doing it using a very different method. It used the wide sidewall of a stiff fin, not the front surface. It did not look to me like it should work--not enough surface area. Through incredible luck, I saw this video for the first time with a student who happened to be a college professor who knew the equation for that kind of propulsion, and he explained to me why it could work. In that equation, every factor is a simple multiplier except for one--velocity. Velocity is squared before being a multiplier. This newer (to me, at least) method allowed for faster fin movement, which made up for the lesser surface area. I tried it. It worked. It is easier. It's how I do it now--unless I have a fin without much sidewall, in which case I revert to old style.

A number of years ago, I was teaching a refresher class to a father and teenage son combination. They showed up with what they thought were their own fins, but the son had obviously walked off with someone else's Atomic split fins the last time they dived, for they were enormous--much too big for him. I had him wear my fins, which were only a little too big for him, while I wore the Atomics. They were too big for me as well. Pulled as tight as they could be, the straps kept coming off my heel. When I teach in a pool, I do a lot of back finning to stay in front of the students while still watching them, and to my utter shock I had no trouble back finning with those huge Atomic split fins, using the old technique.

I decided it was the stiffness. In a later experiment, I put on some really floppy split fins and couldn't do it. I then put on some really floppy blade fins. I could do it, but I was way, way slower than normal.

So, my conclusion is that you need a relatively stiff fin, and the need for a sidewall depends upon the method you use.

 

[boulderjohn]

There are quite a few instructors out there who can't backkick

I would say that it is a rare OW instructor who can do it. When I learned, I was an OW instructor working for a shop, and I had been an instructor for years without even knowing it could be done.I am pretty sure none of the other instructors in the shop could do it. I learned it because I had started tech diving. I later switched shops, and I am quite sure none of those instructors could do it, either. I am pretty sure I know some tech instructors who really can't do it, either.

 

[stuartv]

Was I the only one that thought of this with the title?

I've got a dollar that says the answer to your question is Yes.

I first learned to back kick learning one technique. My tech instructor really didn't teach it to us, and in hindsight I suspect he did not then feel good about his own ability to demonstrate it. A friend and I looked at a bunch of videos and eventually got the hang of it. The propelling force came from the front of the fin--the reverse of a frog kick.

Then I saw a video in which someone advocated doing it using a very different method. It used the wide sidewall of a stiff fin, not the front surface. It did not look to me like it should work--not enough surface area. Through incredible luck, I saw this video for the first time with a student who happened to be a college professor who knew the equation for that kind of propulsion, and he explained to me why it could work. In that equation, every factor is a simple multiplier except for one--velocity. Velocity is squared before being a multiplier. This newer (to me, at least) method allowed for faster fin movement, which made up for the lesser surface area. I tried it. It worked. It is easier. It's how I do it now--unless I have a fin without much sidewall, in which case I revert to old style.

A number of years ago, I was teaching a refresher class to a father and teenage son combination. They showed up with what they thought were their own fins, but the son had obviously walked off with someone else's Atomic split fins the last time they dived, for they were enormous--much too big for him. I had him wear my fins, which were only a little too big for him, while I wore the Atomics. They were too big for me as well. Pulled as tight as they could be, the straps kept coming off my heel. When I teach in a pool, I do a lot of back finning to stay in front of the students while still watching them, and to my utter shock I had no trouble back finning with those huge Atomic split fins, using the old technique.

I decided it was the stiffness. In a later experiment, I put on some really floppy split fins and couldn't do it. I then put on some really floppy blade fins. I could do it, but I was way, way slower than normal.

So, my conclusion is that you need a relatively stiff fin, and the need for a sidewall depends upon the method you use.

Thanks for posting that. My back finning is not very good, but I didn't even realize there were the 2 different techniques. What I do is definitely in the "reverse frog kick" camp. But, my fins are Hollis F1s, so they should be good for the other type. Now I'm going to have to go practice that!

 

[boulderjohn]

But, my fins are Hollis F1s, so they should be good for the other type. Now I'm going to have to go practice that!

Hollis F1s work just fine. With your knees and ankles bent 90°, simply flick the ankles outward quickly. then bring them back s l o w l y and repeat. Remember, in the propelling force equation, velocity is squared, so it has an impact. You must remember to make your recovery stroke slow in order to avoid counteracting what you just accomplished with the reverse stroke.

This also works for helicopter turns.

 

[Coztick]

My sm instructor had me get negative on the bottom of the pool to practice the back kick. It really seemed to align everything. Still a work in progress...

 

[The Chairman]

had me get negative on the bottom of the pool to practice the back kick.

Say it ain't so, Joe! My Trim, Buoyancy and Propulsion class centers around what a student wants to learn. Only two have asked to learn this and both succeeded. It's not that hard if you have a decent frog kick to work backwards from.