Another backplate/wing setup question

[OneBrightGator]

But Boogie, I heard the rabid otters down here are starting to carry paper clips to take us out...

Ben

 

[mempilot]

Methinks someone has been reading the OMS website. Are you going to tell us that the "other guys" spring straps are an entanglement hazard, too?

Sheesh - http://www.omsdive.com/news2.html.

It's that sort of stuff that really pisses me off about OMS. Obviously their stuff isn't good enough to stand on it's own merits, so let's piss all over Halcyon. Anyone who knows me knows I'm not a Halcyon disciple, but this paper-clip and spring strap entanglement hazard crap was enough to convince me to go out and buy an Explorer Wing.

No. I did some research on denier before purchasing my wing. If you'd like to rebut this, go ahead.

This is from a previous post of mine:

Not trying to start a flamewar here, but the OMS shell is ballistic denier and the Halcyon's is not. You can push anything you want that is sharp through the Halcyon shell.

As for the puncture test: 1000 Denier is ballistic nylon (OMS), 1680 Denier is imported look-a-like and is not ballistic (Halcyon). I researched the difference back when I bought mine. Go to any textiles website and search on Denier.

There is a huge difference here in quality. BTW, 1000 is expensive and 1680 is cheap, so why is the Halcyon more expensive?

I compared the OMS and Halcyon single tank donuts and you can tell the difference in the material big time.

 

[mempilot]

Are you going to tell us that the "other guys" spring straps are an entanglement hazard, too?

No. Only you guys make up bs. I actually make my comments based on research and personal experience, not on brand loyalty. I've never said anything about spring straps. I make my own. As do you, so why do you care?

 

[jonnythan]

Define "ballistic nylon" vs "nylon." Ballistic doesn't mean anything whatsoever. 1000 denier doesn't mean ballistic nylon, you can have any number of different types of 1000 denier nylon - different compounds, different weave densities, you name it. Same thing for 1680. Saying 1000 denier is high quality ballistic nylon and 1680 is cheap imported stuff is the same thing as saying 64 MB flash cards are high quality ballistic flash cards, but 128 MB flash cards are cheapo imported non-ballistic flash cards.

I'm not about to argue about the fabrics used on the wings, but from what I read the Halcyon outer shell is designed to be abrasion resistant, not puncture resistant. I don't know anything about the OMS fabric. If OMS' fabric were much better I'm sure I would have heard about it, though.

 

[mempilot]

I pulled my info right off of a textiles manufacturer's website. The # refers to the type of denier weave and material. 1000 refers to 'balistic nylon', a weave originally used in the manufacture of bullet proof vests. It has come to be used in a number of other industries including luggage and such. 1680 is a knockoff of 1000. It looks very similiar to 'ballistic nylon' which has somewhat of a shiny and distinctive surface. When viewed in bright light under various angles, it reflects the light and can look slightly different colors.

1680 is abrasion resistant. 1000 is puncture resistant. There is a difference between the two fabrics.

 

[jonnythan]

The # has absolutely nothing to do with the weave or the material. The denier is, literally, the weight in grams of 9000 meters of the yarn. Obviously you can make any number of materials and weaves out of a given denier. Additionally, you can have nylon of varying densities resulting in the fact that a 1000 denier nylon thread can be any of a variety of diameters, further complicating things.

The fact is that looking at the thread denier a fabric is made out of gives you nothing more than a rough idea of how thick the threads in the fabric are. That's all.

 

[mempilot]

Keep digging a hole.

Cordura Plus by DuPont - 1000 denier puncture resistant

Original ballistic Nylon by DuPont - 1050 denier punture resistant

PV - Polyvinyl Chloride Imitation 1680D Nylon (Imitation Ballistic Nylon) Water resistant.

High Denier Nylon Fabric - 1680 Denier Nylon. Water and stain resistant.

Nylon Oxford Fabric - 420 Denier Nylon. Water resistant

Polyester Oxford Fabric - 600 Denier Nylon. A grade better than 420 Denier Nylon. Water resistant.

 

[OneBrightGator]

1680 is abrasion resistant. 1000 is puncture resistant. There is a difference between the two fabrics.

I'd rather have the abrasion resistance, my wing rubs against more things then it's ever poked by, especially something like a paperclip.

I don't knock gear because of the manufacturer, I knock it because of flaws in the design, a horseshoe wing is an inferior design, regardless of manufacturer, the choice of outer material is poor and the bad press is just more icing on the BS cake.

Ben

 

[jonnythan]

http://www.horsetackreview.com/review-display/31.html
It's 1000 denier so it must be Ballistic Cordura Nylon!

Nice list of fabrics, btw. Notice that each fabric is then described with the yarn used to make it, not the other way around. That's just what your company makes, that's not exclusive. There exist non-Cordura 1000 denier nylons, and there exist 1680 denier Cordura nylons. There's also a 420 Cordura which is very different from the 420 in that Nylon Oxford fabric.

I'm diggin something, but it isn't a hole..

 

[mempilot]

You crack me up not so bright gator. If OMS used 1680, you call it a flaw in design. All doubles wings are horseshoe in design. There is no flaw there other than the one you perceive or have read from other armchair engineers. Your single full donut gets distorted at the bottom when air is introduced into the bladder. You may think the air flows better, but it is neglible. BTW, why would you have so much air in you bladder down deep anyway? A couple of squirts at most should be all you need. The horseshoe argument on single wings is no different than arguing for a horseshoe wing on doubles.