Anti-Fogging Treatments for New Masks. (a comparison of techniques)

[RayfromTX]

The last big piece of this puzzle is whether or not the silicone is simply contaminating the glass or has somehow become chemically bonded to the glass.
snip

It is my opinion that it is adsorption of the silicone molecules.
Here is a definition of adsorption:
Adsorption is defined as the adhesion of a chemical species onto the surface of particles. ... In adsorption, the gas or liquid particles bind to the solid or liquid surface that is termed the adsorbent. The particles form an atomic or molecular adsorbate film.

 

[lowviz]

Or it could be evidence that it's a different formulation of silicone?

And, if there is something there making it hydrophobic, how do you know for sure that it is silicone-based? Is it known that all masks use a silicone compound for whatever purpose it is that some masks use Si?

Your concerns are shared by many, @dberry for example:

I hesitate to offer any further advice without knowing more specifically what is on the lenses and why. And given the variety of materials used on different masks, a systematic study doesn't seem in the cards.

In this case of applied research we are just trying to find a solution to a problem (we did that well enough) and then be able to explain/justify/rationalize every observation with a single best guess as to what is happening. We are working on that now.

 

[lowviz]

OMG, what I did to my favorite ammonia-treated 'fogless' mask:


I'll next try to physically (paper towels) remove the grease without increasing the area covered. After that, a really good wash with Dawn dish soap and a fog test. After that, one run through the dishwasher and another fog test. Stay tuned...

 

[lowviz]

Does it fog?


OH HELL, YEAH!

We press on...

 

[lowviz]

Used cotton swabs to rub from outside to inside to remove as much grease as possible then a quick circular buff with a paper towel. Very surprised at the low level of fog with this simple cleaning!


Is the glass so hydrophilic from the ammonia treatment that the grease doesn't stick??

-into the dishwasher...

 

[lowviz]

This pretty much marks the end of this thread for me.

My mask is back! Shook off the grease just like a new mask shakes off water.



I will write up what I believe to be true and leave it to anyone else to refute it.

On to paperwork >sigh< and a '@Johnoly' finish!

Oh yeah, one last ball drop and a final ammonia soak for a bunch of masks that need to find their way back home...

 

[stuartv]

I'm afraid I have another casualty of science.

I put this one in the ammonia bath Sunday a week ago, after I took the previous batch of 5 out. I took this one out last night. As you can see, the plastic insert that held the lenses in fell out. The lenses themselves are loose. Once again, this was while in the bath. No agitation or anything. It just sat there for a week and fell out sometime along the way.

Also, you can see some black marks on the paper towel to the left. That is where I rubbed the actual frame of the mask. The black stuff was coming right off on my hands as I handled the mask, taking it out of the solution. This morning, it's dry and i can see that the mask frame used to be shiny all over and now the places where I rubbed it are a dull finish. Now that it is dry, the black stuff does not come off on my fingers anymore.

This is a different brand than the last dead soldier I posted. So, again, I am going to email the manufacturer and give them a chance to respond before I name names. I have not heard anything back from the manufacturer of the previous one. I'm going to email them today and give them one more opportunity to have a voice in this conversation.

 

[stuartv]

@lowviz, I kind of think maybe this is an indication that this research really is not ready to be put to bed. The process you have so painstakingly developed seems like it might be too far from universally applicable. Particularly since it is not yet clear (to me, anyway) how to reliably know which masks can handle the ammonia bath and which ones can't.

I now wonder if there is some amount of time that could be used for the ammonia bath that would be enough to complete the hydroxylation, but not enough to have a detrimental effect on certain mask components.

Or, would the @lexvil approach (only put ammonia on the inside of the glass) do everything that is needed while having no effect at all on the susceptible components? If you use that approach, does the mask have to be in a sealed container to prevent the active ingredient in the ammonia from leaving solution and rendering it ineffective before it has completed its job? If it's in a sealed container, does the trapped ammonia gas still eff up the plastic parts of the mask?

Still so many questions...

 

[lexvil]

It is to bad that some masks have such failure. My Tusa freedom had a piece of the frame peel off and one of the strap locks fail, it may or may not be related to the ammonia, I only covered the inside of the glass but it was sealed in a plastic container so subject to vapor. I did 3 days with a scubapro frameless but it’s still fogs on the edges but no other issue yet, going to do it one more time. Currently I have the lenses from my Zeagle scope soaking, since they are removable no worries, would like to do the Tusa Paragon but don’t want to damage the coating of the removable lenses.

 

[lowviz]

As you can see, the plastic insert that held the lenses in fell out.

I'm beginning to think that a removable lens mask may not need to be ammonia-treated or if you wish, ammonia-treat the lenses by themselves. I would reserve an ammonia soak as a last resort for a frameless mask. Has anyone had a bad experience with soaking a frameless mask?

I now wonder if there is some amount of time that could be used for the ammonia bath that would be enough to complete the hydroxylation, but not enough to have a detrimental effect on certain mask components.

Probably, but I'm now starting to favor the @lexvil approach to an ammonia soak. A run through a dishwasher should handle any skirt issues.

I did 3 days with a scubapro frameless but it’s still fogs on the edges but no other issue yet, going to do it one more time.

My SP frameless took a full week of soaking...