AOW cert or not?

[CT-Rich]

As far as charters requiring AOW rather than a log book for certain dives is concerned, think about it from their perspective. Begin with the fact that a diver can acquire a very impressive log book without leaving the basement. Next, consider what happens if there is a dive accident and there is a question about whether or not they allowed a diver with insufficient skills to perform the dive. If they used a log book or even a checkout dive as their determiner, then the true deciding factor was their judgment. They were the ones that looked at the logbook or diver and decided that diver was ready for that dive, so they can be sued for making a bad decision. If they instead used a hard and fast rule like an AOW card, then their judgment does not come into play.

I totally agree with this, I may be good to go for a particular type of dive, but I would understand the charter not taking me because of some sort of documentation issue. They have insurers they have to satisfy. Look at what happened with the recent death on the Gen. Sherman. They have heap of trouble with what happened and adding certification issues to the troubles would be unnecessary. I ultimately understand that eventhough I am a thoughtful and competent diver, I am not going piss and moan that I should be grandfathered onto a boat because 30 years ago, we thought AOW training was primarily a money machine. It is, but today it is part of the institution of diving.

I think AOW is part of learning to dive. I would look at AOW the same as I would any Newbie diver. Excellent, how many dives have you done? what types of conditions have you seen? How do they handle their gear? Are they decked out like Christmas trees or do they have an intelligent kit? I look at those things when I see other divers, but I am not liable for their safety. Charters are.

I would certainly worry most about the divers that look at AOW as something to puff their chest out about, rather than as a step in their education. I also hope that other divers will look at me and assess me beyond a Basic C-card or AOW.

 

[AfterDark]

Anyone who has down AOW and thinks it was not worth the money must have had a lousy instructor IMHO.

It has been many years since I did mine, but I did watch an instructor taking students through the paces last Thursday, and it was interesting to see how well he does the course because I am going to be using him tomorrow and the day after for the Self Reliant Diver course. If I was not happy with the way he taught then I would find another instructor.

As Devon Diver pointed out, agencies set the standards, some instructors go beyond that, and that is the type of instructor to choose.

Or option 2 the diver has been doing AOW / deep air diving for decades with skills and equipment honed over 1900 dives and thousands of hours in the water. The instructor was fine and everyone else in the class was challenged. It was just old hat to me. My avatar, before that patch was originally made avaiable I had already been night diving for years. There weren't any night dive class when I started doing it, for example.

 

[Searcaigh]

Or option 2 the diver has been doing AOW / deep air diving for decades with skills and equipment honed over 1900 dives and thousands of hours in the water. The instructor was fine and everyone else in the class was challenged. It was just old hat to me. My avatar, before that patch was originally made avaiable I had already been night diving for years. There weren't any night dive class when I started doing it, for example.

Fair enough but that I am sure you would agree is not the norm, the majority probably do AOW before 50 dives I suspect, I don't have data on that so cannot make more than an assumption, perhaps Devon Diver has access to PADI data and can comment, that would be interesting to note as I have met quite a few Thailand trained AOW with 10 dives.

Personally I had over 100 post PADI OW dives before I did my AOW back in 1992. My OW instructor told me to just go out and dive and come back to do the AOW whenever I felt like doing the course, there was never any pressure to sell the course from his side because he knew my background and I only needed the PADI OW card to buy air in Jeddah.

 

[DevonDiver]

IMHO, there's four ways to view an AOW course:

1) As an extension of OW (i.e. OW#2 / OW+)

Some view AOW as a natural progression directly from OW - in essence turning their entry-level training from a 4-dive course into a 9-dive course.... to achieve a far higher level of core skills and increased experience from the offset, all the while safe under the supervision of an instructor - which is something they view as vital in the early stages of their development.
Almost impossible to be disappointed by this.

2) As an activity based introduction.

For those who have cemented their basic OW skills and are interested in getting a taster of various activity-specific diving courses - with a view towards seeing what they enjoy and where they want to shape future training, equipment investment etc.Hard to be disappointed if this is your goal, providing your instructor has some semblance of motivation and activity-related experience.

3) As an intermediate level skill development course.

For those who believe that it is best to 'get some experience' before enrolling on AOW. That's fine in concept, but sucks lemons if the instructor/operation isn't on the same hymn-sheet as you... and feeds you a basic OW+ type affair.

The AOW course is hugely flexible...and can deliver training elements from any specialty course the instructor is qualified to teach. Yes... that can include stuff like 'Tech Basics' or 'Sidemount' or 'Cavern'. Take a look at some courses available...and match those with a great instructor... and there's stuff that virtually any diver can gain development from.

If this is what you want, you need to seek an instructor willing to supply it, identify and agree your specific individual goals and use the training as a vehicle to challenge yourself, refine existing strengths, iron-out weaknesses and develop new knowledge and skills in line with the diving you wish to progress to.

4) As an advanced level skill development course.

For the Walter Mitty's and card collecting show-offs of this world... who are strangely aroused by the word "advanced".

Will be massively disappointed with the course ("what, no underwater knife-fighting lessons?")... but will enjoy the opportunity to express cynicism about the course afterwards on internet forums, whilst simultaneously enjoying the prestige that the cards gives them in the eyes of their non-diving friends.



Any thread about AOW on this forum typically illustrates that a myriad of views exist - about the nature and purpose of the course. The lesson that gives us is that dive pros and shops also have different views.

Thus, it is critical to ensure that the dive pro/shop will cater to your views... your expectations.... and not just simply deliver what they feel the course should be...

 

[NAM001]

It's very unfortunate that you had that experience, and I am trying hard (but without success) to think which of the AOW dives would include those activities. A different instructor would have given you a different experience.

.

IS THIS NOT WHERE THE INSRUCTOR TRIES TO let the student experience being narced through use of simple tasks

 

[Hawkwood]

IS THIS NOT WHERE THE INSRUCTOR TRIES TO let the student experience being narced through use of simple tasks

This does not happen during the deep dive as part of PADI's AOW.

 

[NAM001]

i am not saying that is a curriculum item. only that many instructors (no matter what agency) have done this on the deep dive. A friend of mine didit on his deep dive and it was in a padi course.

This does not happen during the deep dive as part of PADI's AOW.

 

[DevonDiver]

i am not saying that is a curriculum item. only that many instructors (no matter what agency) have done this on the deep dive. A friend of mine didit on his deep dive and it was in a padi course.

The PADI Deep course change in the last couple of years. Dive 1 & 3 skills were exchanged. Dive 1 (as per AOW) is now the 'color demo' and the narc test is removed to Dive 3.

Personally, I don't think the narc test isn't up to much. A few years teaching that and I concluded that I was doing more harm than good, because few divers felt noticeable narcosis...so walked away with the mis-appreciation that they "don't get narc'd" at those depths etc etc. Add some CO2 loading and a little stress and it provides a much better insight.... so I do

Color and effects of pressure are useful demos... but I prefer to teach usable skills, not just concepts. I still do those demos (tick the boxes), but the emphasis on my courses is with diving technique, precision, control and planning.

 

[Buoyant1]

This does not happen during the deep dive as part of PADI's AOW.

Yeah, that's where it happened! I was part of the deep dive. We surface swam to the marker for a 60' platform. We were sent to the platform, and instructed to get into a circle and kneel, each candidate was required to unlock a lock (with the combination on a slate) play three games of tic tac toe with one of the DMIT's, and tie of of three different knots. After we did our "narc exercises" we went off the platform, to a deep boat, did one lap around it and came back up to the platform and kneeled until everyone did their pass on it, then went up the line and surface swam back to shore. kind of a stupid set up! (especially since I already had about 10-15 dives to that same attraction)

On the search and recovery dive we were instructed to kneel on a shallower platform, and raise a set of weights (each person one at a time with the instructor) from the platform to the surface, then return it back to the platform (and kneel again)

Yeah, we kneeled!

---------- Post Merged at 10:39 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 10:32 PM ----------

Fair enough but that I am sure you would agree is not the norm, the majority probably do AOW before 50 dives I suspect, I don't have data on that so cannot make more than an assumption, perhaps Devon Diver has access to PADI data and can comment, that would be interesting to note as I have met quite a few Thailand trained AOW with 10 dives.

Personally I had over 100 post PADI OW dives before I did my AOW back in 1992. My OW instructor told me to just go out and dive and come back to do the AOW whenever I felt like doing the course, there was never any pressure to sell the course from his side because he knew my background and I only needed the PADI OW card to buy air in Jeddah.

I did the same thing..I just went diving! I did my AOW after about 45 dives, and was diving regularly with a bunch of guys that took me on advanced dives because they knew I could handle it. I was heading to the Keys and knew that most of the op's wouldn't take me on anything over 60ft. unless I had the card. I talked to one op and said I can bring my log and prove that I had x-amount of dives over the magic depth, and that wasn't good enough...One said they would take me, but I had to pay for a DM which was a waste of money IMHO, so I just said screw it and got the card!


I don't agree with it, and like I said, they should probably just add the AOW course onto the back end of the OW course and make it mandatory!