Are BOW and AOW classes really changing that much

[boulderjohn]

You didn't include dealing with a panicked diver on the list. Is there anything on that?

Not that I recall--I don't have the book with me.

But that is another non-issue, really. How often have you seen a panicked diver? When a diver is in trouble at the surface and in danger of drowning--which does indeed happen--it is rarely of the nature we think of in the panicked diver scenario. See Drowning Doesn't Look Like Drowning for one example of a more likely scenario.

I tell my Rescue students that the hysterical, panicked, splashing diver--if you see one--is not in any real danger until they get tired of being hysterical and splashing.

If we included all of that training in an OW class, we would be spending a lot of time to prepare students for something 99.9% will never see, and even if it does happen, the odds that the training will make any difference are slim. In the actual rescues with which I am familiar, what the rescuer did was rarely what we teach them to do. For example, in the unconscious diver scenario I know about and mentioned above, the rescue trained professional swam down, grabbed the sinking diver by the arm, pulled him to the surface, and dragged him quickly to the boat. That is exactly what an untrained amateur would have done, and it is NOT what he was taught to do in the rescue course.

 

[TMHeimer]

Yeah I see what you're saying. I've heard stuff like the arm grabbing etc. as well. I agree that spending a lot (or even any) OW course time on this stuff may not be the best way to go. Nevertheless, I am glad to see such info. is in the new manual. Almost everyone on SB swears that Rescue is the best class ever invented to take. So at least being able to read about these procedures (and maybe see videos in the OW e learning?--) has to be a good idea.

 

[USMC CPL.]

And right he is, you can use most (any?) computers to plan your next dive. Tables are useless (IMNHO). It should however have been explained.


This should be covered.

Ask 10 different instructors, you'll get 10 different answers here.
In order:
- not the job of a beginning OW diver... In the same way I don't go and ask people that just began doing whatever sport if they know how to do proper CPR. Maybe it used to be done, but I don't think it's vital, and has been dismissed in most agencies I believe. Or maybe it was just a "try something" thing that's taught there, don't remember.
- Is covered in training. IIRC, straight line and square patterns (?) are covered.
- ascent rates are covered
- safety stop is covered. Though I can't recall what is said as to "where".



Nope, this is just an instructor thing. There's a lot to be said about the teaching imo, but those points should be covered. So it's either bad student (it happens) or bad instructor, or your buddy isn't done with his class and then you can't blame it on him anyone.

I do disagree with you on one point and that is the dive computer for planning. I dive with a computer but do not rely on it for planning my dive for the simple fact that your computer could take a dump and then you would be stuck using tables. And if you cannot read a table then what. I agree with rest of your comments.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

I do disagree with you on one point and that is the dive computer for planning. I dive with a computer but do not rely on it for planning my dive for the simple fact that your computer could take a dump and then you would be stuck using tables. And if you cannot read a table then what. I agree with rest of your comments.

No backup computer? I know that is spendy for many, and maybe it is my more tec focus for diving, but I think it is worth it, even for recreational diving on vacation. Vacation time is scarce, and I don't want to miss dives due to an equipment problem.

 

[USMC CPL.]

No backup computer? I know that is spendy for many, and maybe it is my more tec focus for diving, but I think it is worth it, even for recreational diving on vacation. Vacation time is scarce, and I don't want to miss dives due to an equipment problem.

No I do not have a second dive computer yet. I always dive with a dive watch and depth gauge. I understand the tec thinking. I am in the process of getting the additional gear to start tec training.

 

[Patoux01]

And if you cannot read a table then what.

Any monkey can read a table. But even then, if you don't know how to, I'm not sure what's the big deal? You're not gonna be underwater when you read them (or you'd have missed the past 20 years or so of diving evolution), so just grab someone that'll explain it rapidly and be done with it.

Typical scenario would be:
- do dive 1 on computer
- plan dive 2 with computer (tables? You're not gonna have the proper group anyway)
- computer dies during dive 2
- ascend immediately with your buddy which will give a reference of speed.
- start digging out tables for dive 3
- realize you have no idea of your current saturation state, so tables are pointless. (You can guesstimate them, sure. I would, but I don't think I'm allowed to recommend that practice)
- wait out 24h
- grab a rental computer or borrow one
- go diving again

Can't see the big deal, miss a dive or two if you really are unable to figure out how to use them, but except that? The ocean's not going away, nor are (most of) the wrecks.

 

[boulderjohn]

After certification, I went on a dive trip to Cozumel. I dutifully followed my guide, as is required there. It was, as usual, a multilevel dive. Back on the boat during the surface interval, I whipped out my tables so I could log the dive and prepare for the next one. I discovered that the multi-level dive I had just done was WAY off the tables. There is no way I could have planned a second dive using tables. The rest of the divers on the boat, all with computers, laughed and told me my tables would make a decent Frisbee.

I bought a computer.

That was nearly 20 years ago. It still remains the only time I have ever seen a diver even attempt to use the tables outside of OW training.

 

[drbill]

I had a computer battery die on me when the display said it had about 38% battery life remaining (if my memory is correct). I was in deep deco and had to count off the seconds, then double it to be sure. I was furious as the computer manual stated that even at 0% remaining battery life you still would get a few dives out of it. Others indicated failures at up to the high 40% level.

Ever since then I've dived with redundant computers.

 

[TMHeimer]

Actually, I read once that it's a good idea to review tables while at a safety stop. I've never done that since I try to stay away from the NDL by quite a few minutes. I can't see the need to do that as there is very little to memorize when doing a square profile.

 

[Marie13]

Over the winter I bought an Oceanic BUD computer for a backup. Bit less than $200. Clip it to your BC and forget about it. Good backup for my Geo 2.0. Didn't learn the tables and it doesn't bother me. I looked them up online and maybe it will be a winter project some day.