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Are you a Dive Hypocrite?

Discussion in 'Advanced Scuba' started by DCBC, Apr 11, 2010.

  1. DCBC

    DCBC Banned

    Diving is generally a safe sport, it does however possess an element of risk. As time goes by, many of us seek further training and start to dive deeper, go solo, venture into wrecks & caves and use CCR. Some use air exclusively, while others use mixed-gas. Some get into decompression diving, while others refrain from doing so.

    Should certain diving activities be prohibited? I point this out because of the lack of acceptance by some individuals surrounding the use of deep air. There's no doubt about it, that using deep air increases the diver's level of risk. So does solo diving, penetrating caves or wrecks, the list goes on. Why should one particular brand of risk be looked down upon, while another is accepted?

    To what extent do you believe in personal freedom? What level of risk do you feel that a diver can assume? What do you think?
  2. Walter

    Walter Instructor, Scuba

    I have prohibited certain dive activities for me. I don't have the right to prohibit them for anyone else.

    I believe your personal freedom should extend as far as you want to take it as long as it does not limit someone else's personal freedom.

    Any level up to and including certain death. I don't buy the argument of limiting activities because it puts rescuers at risk. Rescuers set their own limits beyond which they do not go. I believe any diver should be free to do anything they want as long as they understand none of the rest of us have any obligation to save their ass.
  3. pollywogg

    pollywogg Regular of the Pub

    # of Dives: 50 - 99
    Location: Delray Beach, FL
    I agree with Walter and DCBC on this. Contrary to what some on the board think, we're all big boys(and girls). We can take into account the risks involved and make our own decisions. If you want to go dive to 200' on air, go ahead, more power to ya, but don't expect me to be your buddy on that one. If you want to use trimix every time you hit the water, go ahead, but I won't be splitting that bill with you.
    I have watched this deep air debate for awhile, and I know that, as a fairly inexperienced diver, my opinion counts for nada. My opinion on this is simply, if you feel that there is an acceptable level of risk, and you feel up to it, go right ahead, just don't expect to be saved, because it might not be an acceptable level of risk for rescuers. This applies to deep air, solo diving, cave diving, wreck diving. Hell, it applies to sky-diving, bungee-jumping, and driving fast cars. As long as my decision doesn't hurt you or others, then f*@k off, and shut up. (And I mean that in the most civil, polite way)
  4. Jim Lapenta

    Jim Lapenta Dive Shop

    # of Dives: 500 - 999
    Location: Canonsburg, Pa
    Same here. I set my limits based on training, experience, equipment, and to some extent the effect my demise would have on my family. That has changed in the last few months. Most of you know why. I find myself considering activities and dives that I would not have done before. Not that I'm going to do out and do the Doria this week, but that idea of getting to 180 feet is now changing to 200-250. But along with that is the acceptance that it will require more training, money, and the goal of doing that has changed from this year to next. I need to get some classes done and students trained in order to pay for the new stuff for myself. But for anyone to come along and say you cannot dive this wreck or this site because it's too dangerous is not anyone's place but mine.

    To restrict access because it may be a historic site, very fragile, or perhaps the last resting place of someone is one thing (even though I think those are also BS reasons in many cases dreamed up by those who have other motives), but to say this is too dangerous for someone with the training, equipment, judgment, and mindset is just plain wrong. It is another one of those nanny state ideas that has turned boys into prancing sissies and given lawyers more control over our lives.

    An operator telling a new OW diver that they will not let them dive the Vandenberg when the current is ripping in one thing, telling me I can't do it under the same conditions is more Bull Caca.
  5. Slamfire

    Slamfire Solo Diver

    # of Dives: I'm a Fish!
    Location: Langley, British Columbia, Canada
    I've said it before and I'll say it once again. I feel very fortunate to live in a [-]country[/-] province where diving activities are not regulated by laws.
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2010
  6. vladimir

    vladimir Solo Diver

    # of Dives: I just don't log dives
    Not counting Quebec, right?
  7. DCBC

    DCBC Banned

    Quebec is a force unto itself. Withstanding what has happened there and what I hear going on in Europe, it makes me wonder if regulation will be more commonplace in the future for us all.
  8. Cave Diver

    Cave Diver Divemaster

    If someone has the requisite training and experience I don't really care what type of diving they do. I don't recommend someone doing deep air without the proper training and experience any more than I'd recommend they go cave diving.

    There is more to both of them than simply strapping on a set of doubles and jumping in the water. If you fully understand the risks and dangers and you have the experience, training and equipment to handle it then go for it.

    That doesn't mean that I think one type of training necessarily crosses over to another to provide that sort of training and understanding. As an example, a commercial diver that dives underwater pipes for cleaning and inspection may be used to working in an overhead environment, but that doesn't mean they're qualified to cave dive. Likewise that doesn't mean a cave diver is qualified to do a commercial dive in a pipe.

    I think they should be able to assume any informed level of risk they want as long as it doesn't interfere with another persons rights, freedoms or put another person at risk. If you want to climb that mountain, go for it. Just don't expect that someone else has a duty or responsibility to come get you if you break your leg. Likewise, if you're doing an extreme sport, accept that safety is your personal responsibility and its up to you to ensure that any equipment needed is adequate for the task and in proper working order. If you're not capable of doing that, don't blame others for a failure.
  9. CamG

    CamG Divemaster Candidate

    # of Dives: 500 - 999
    Location: Geneva Indiana
    Greetings everyone and this is a serious topic that is only going to get worse. I hope that the US does not follow suit with Canada and Europe trying to regulate our diving to promote our safety. I whole heartedly agree that we are able to determine our own level of risk. There will always be fatalities and you can not regulate that.
    You minimize them through education and awareness "training". It may sound harsh but natural selection will undoubtably play a large part in the statistics. Not every dive fatality is preventable but we all try to do our best. I have not met a diver who is in a hurry to pass into the afterlife at least before he properly stows his or her gear making plans for his will and last testament.
    We all set our own risk levels and hopefully properly train and prepare for the dives that we plan. What more can you do?
    CamG Keep diving....keep training....keep learning!
  10. drbill

    drbill The Lorax for the Kelp Forest Scuba Legend

    # of Dives: 2,500 - 4,999
    Location: Santa Catalina Island, CA
    I have dived deep (200 ft) air solo many times and almost always dive solo. I would certainly fight any attempt to limit my freedom to do so.

    However, since I recognize I am taking a risk, when I do so on a dive boat, I make sure they know they (and my family) have no responsibility to try to save me or recover my body should something happen. If I'm diving off a boat whose captain won't allow it, I accept their authority and take a buddy and limit my depth.

    I do prohibit myself from serious penetration of wrecks or caves since I have neither the training nor the desire to do so. However, I would never limit anyone else's right to do so (well, with the possible exception of my son).

    I believe that I have the right to do these dives... but that I don't have the right to expect others to risk their lives should something go wrong.

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