Boat Captain's rules or your own safety?

[Gilldiver]

It looks like the boat in question carries a fairly large amount of divers. Without some kind of rule structure for everyone to follow, it can be chaos in marginal weather.

Howard's boat can take well over 15 divers if you pack it. Many of these divers will have doubles, pony's, stages, wreck bags, etc. on. This is not Caribbean warm water diving in a skin. Once you get all that mass on your back or hanging off of you, things change very quickly.

As for checking some of the posters records, I did, and then made my statement.

To tell you the truth, I don't like an enclosed ladder all that much, but some times in real rough water, they aren't all that bad and once you know how to get up them, aren't all that hard. The difference between fair wave conditions and rough can be the space of a dive as winds and tide change and you have to get up in completely different conditions then you went in on. Some of the most scary times I have had are timing the charge in on a ladder in rough water when you can't see it or the swim platform because it is underwater and you are blinded by all the bubbles and white water swirling around and need to feel for the ladder. In such conditions I will try to get my knees into a rung, ride the ladder up and reposition my feet onto a rung on the way back down. When the boat lengths are in the 35-70 foot range and the wave period short, the ride can be over 5 feet from top to bottom and much more like a Rodeo then the diving most in this thread may have ever encountered.

What I hate are ladders or boats that don't have good hand holds near the top to use at the Last step up the ladder.

 

[Txfirefighter4305]

The Captain is the Captain yes....but

I have been a Firefighter for nine years. The Chief is the Chief. However, just that fact does not relieve him from responsibility should something go wrong and does not mean that he can just make up his own rules.

I can not imagine a licensed Captain has the ability to ignore obvious best practices and play by his own rules. He opens himself to liability should sometimes happen. It's like a Fire Department saying we will never see that kind of call here. It's not if, its when.

That being said, its simple. Find another boat. If he insists on going to the same wreck all of the time and has rules that are unacceptable, then why continue to contribute to his retirement?

If I am being paid for a service, I am going to provide that service. If customers are upset the vis isn't 100+, well they can come dive in Missouri!!!!

 

[captain]

One advantage to a closed ladder is your foot can't slip sideways off a rung when the boat is rocking hard and jamming the sides of your feet against the sides of the ladder helps stablize you.

 

[diverdoug1]

One advantage to a closed ladder is your foot can't slip sideways off a rung when the boat is rocking hard and jamming the sides of your feet against the sides of the ladder helps stablize you.

Yeah, although my boat has an open sided ladder, I actually like the closed ones better. When I elect to ascend with fins on, I don't come in from the sides with my feet. I just force the top of my foot over the rung (so it flips the fin over without trying to "thread" the end of the fin above the rung). I think this puts a lot of wear on the fins, so I usually take them off first. I only leave them on when I am trying to get out fast, and dont want to take the time to flip off my fins and thread them over my wrist (not that it takes that long, spring straps are great). If I am using freediving fins, I always take them off first.

 

[ScubaMarc]

fyi: this is the same captain that had a brief mention in shadow divers:
Shadow divers: the true adventure of ... - Google Books
click on page 40

 

[Thalassamania]

Howard's boat can take well over 15 divers if you pack it. Many of these divers will have doubles, pony's, stages, wreck bags, etc. on. This is not Caribbean warm water diving in a skin. Once you get all that mass on your back or hanging off of you, things change very quickly.

As for checking some of the posters records, I did, and then made my statement.

To tell you the truth, I don't like an enclosed ladder all that much, but some times in real rough water, they aren't all that bad and once you know how to get up them, aren't all that hard. The difference between fair wave conditions and rough can be the space of a dive as winds and tide change and you have to get up in completely different conditions then you went in on. Some of the most scary times I have had are timing the charge in on a ladder in rough water when you can't see it or the swim platform because it is underwater and you are blinded by all the bubbles and white water swirling around and need to feel for the ladder. In such conditions I will try to get my knees into a rung, ride the ladder up and reposition my feet onto a rung on the way back down. When the boat lengths are in the 35-70 foot range and the wave period short, the ride can be over 5 feet from top to bottom and much more like a Rodeo then the diving most in this thread may have ever encountered. ...

All the more reason to ditch the macho climb back onto the deck, shuck your gear first, get a hold of the tag line and remove your fins before climbing.

 

[Fish-R-Man]

I have to think a lot of the problems that people have getting back on board a boat, no matter what type of ladder system they use, is they just don't get a chance to do it that often. I live on a boat in the Bering Sea for about 200 days a year. Going up and down ladders in crappy weather is an everyday deal here. Granted, I am not coming out of the water with dive gear on, but I am so used to the movement of the boat that when I have dive gear on, its not that big of a deal to keep my balance or to use the boarding ladders.

After reading the bit from Shadow Divers, if I were on this boat with Capt Howard on board. I would listen to what he has to say. He knows his boat, the weather and I am sure has seen it all as far as access and egress from his vessel.....

 

[SuPrBuGmAn]

fyi: this is the same captain that had a brief mention in shadow divers:
Shadow divers: the true adventure of ... - Google Books
click on page 40

Sounds like the actions of a captain with no sense of responsibility or safety for his clients, OH WAIT!??

 

[diverdoug1]

Sounds like the actions of a captain with no sense of responsibility or safety for his clients, OH WAIT!??

I chartered with him a few times in the 90's. Never had a problem with him.

 

[Gilldiver]

I have to think a lot of the problems that people have getting back on board a boat, no matter what type of ladder system they use, is they just don't get a chance to do it that often. I live on a boat in the Bering Sea for about 200 days a year. Going up and down ladders in crappy weather is an everyday deal here. Granted, I am not coming out of the water with dive gear on, but I am so used to the movement of the boat that when I have dive gear on, its not that big of a deal to keep my balance or to use the boarding ladders.

By far more people get hurt on the boat or by the boat then ever got hurt getting on it or while under the water.

When docking or undocking the mates always have to tell people to keep their hands inside the boat and that there is nothing that they can do to move a 30 to 60 ton boat when it wants to go one way or another, people always want to help fend off the boat for some reason. Only the engines and ropes properly rigged will do that.

I have also seen more then one compound fracture from falling down even short ladders (some call them stairs) in just going from the deck to the cabin when the boat decides to buck a bit.