Boat crew setting kit up

Please register or login

Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

Benefits of registering include

  • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
  • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
  • You can make this box go away

Joining is quick and easy. Log in or Register now!

Boat crew setting kit up

I am currently working in a dive centre in the Philippines..

We are in the middle of a debate with the owner about divers expectations differing with my and my instructor partner about having boat crew set up dive kit.

The boat crew we use are not divers and they have no training in kit set up..they are primarily boat crew/ fishermen and Butanding interaction crew.

They have training of how to get divers in and out of the water, positioning of the boat for pick ups, some safety training, and also the basics of how to handle kit.

Now I am of the mind set that if I am going to dive with the kit, I should be the one setting it up. My partner thinks the same and most of our British divers friends think the same also.

Most of the guests we get through, despite us briefing them that the boat crew will help them, but not to let them set up the kit, just sit back and let them do it and worse than that, then proceed to dive without ever checking the kit. We have had numerous instances of divers entering the water with tanks turned off, tanks falling out etc.

The owner thinks that to give good customer service we should train the crew to set up kit. My partner and I think that, from a safety point of view, divers should set up their own kit.



One of our main dive sites is Manta bowl where the surface conditions are often very poor and the current rips through...the consequences of not having properly set up kit there are really rather severe, something which the guests are briefed about but most chose to ignore.


Also is having ones kit set up by crew lazy, or just what guests expect these days?..it seems we have a lot of guests who are almost literally unable to set their kit up which sometimes leads us to wonder how well they know how to use it..

Interested in comments please..

Thanks
Jo

From a liability standpoint, one would think that the crew should be certified divers at a minimum. Depending upon an agency's training standards, a certified diver may be considered a "certified assistant." I know both PDIC and PSAI consider a certified diver a certified assistant at the level of training that has been completed.

I like the idea of certified assistants because not everyone is cut out to be a divemaster. Divemaster training shouldn't be watered down to allow everyone working in the diving industry to meet a standard for employment. I'd rather have at least one or two top quality divemasters on a boat to lead a dive and truly be able to handle emergencies like professionals rather than an entire crew who barely meets the real-world standards for divemastering. At a recent DEMA meeting, the focus groups complained most loudly about poor standards for dive pros affecting the standards of open water divers.

Your employer should obtain legal advice from an attorney regarding the role of the crew in setting up equipment. If the operation goes to the extreme that some operators do by not letting the diver touch his or her own gear, that would be a red flag to me not to patron such an operation. First, don't touch my gear. Believe me, you wouldn't know how to put my rig together the way I like it. If you see an obvious problem, by all means, help me out. Even though I have 30 years of experience and dive a state of the art rig, I'm not immune to making a mistake. I'd rather someone call my attention to what might be wrong rather than touch anything.

It's true that some divers are being taught to expect royal service. A friend of mine who worked in Hawaii before moving to Vietnam told me that many of the Japanese divers expect you to help them into their wetsuits and set up their rigs. When I worked in the Caymans, I was told I needed to do more for the divers so we could all get better tips. Coming from an agency that expected every diver to be entirely responsible for himself or herself it was culture shock to work at a resort.

You need to identify your customers and assess their needs. It might be an opportunity for the crew and the DM's to make more money for more service. If a diver isn't comfortable setting up his or her own rig, I would bet that diver shouldn't be a diver in the first place and needs to dive with a divemaster for which the DM should be tipped.

With abbreviated time frames for training, many dive centers and instructors do not take the high road and exceed today's poor minimum standards. It takes an exceptional instructor to produce quality in today's training arena. Resort staff are challenged with catering to the uncomfortable and the highly experienced alike. Experienced divers want to be left alone. The uncomfortable need help. Policies need to be in place so both groups have a great time.

A suggestion: record the number of uncomfortable divers you get every week compared to comfortable divers and send those results to the Recreational Scuba Training Council. Let them know they are making a mockery of the sport.
 
If your crew is already setting up gear train them on hoe to do it, and while your at it teach them to ask if people want it. Me I don't care if some one sets up my gear I'll check it when I'm putting it on, I would rather enjoy the ride, but if some one wants to judge me or whatever so be it. I was just talking about this with my wife and she would rather do it herself if you ask her but will also just check if it is done for her. Look at what you can control and work with it.

Ben
 
Boat crew setting kit up

I am currently working in a dive centre in the Philippines..

We are in the middle of a debate with the owner about divers expectations differing with my and my instructor partner about having boat crew set up dive kit.

The boat crew we use are not divers and they have no training in kit set up..they are primarily boat crew/ fishermen and Butanding interaction crew.

They have training of how to get divers in and out of the water, positioning of the boat for pick ups, some safety training, and also the basics of how to handle kit.

Now I am of the mind set that if I am going to dive with the kit, I should be the one setting it up. My partner thinks the same and most of our British divers friends think the same also.

Most of the guests we get through, despite us briefing them that the boat crew will help them, but not to let them set up the kit, just sit back and let them do it and worse than that, then proceed to dive without ever checking the kit. We have had numerous instances of divers entering the water with tanks turned off, tanks falling out etc.

The owner thinks that to give good customer service we should train the crew to set up kit. My partner and I think that, from a safety point of view, divers should set up their own kit.



One of our main dive sites is Manta bowl where the surface conditions are often very poor and the current rips through...the consequences of not having properly set up kit there are really rather severe, something which the guests are briefed about but most chose to ignore.


Also is having ones kit set up by crew lazy, or just what guests expect these days?..it seems we have a lot of guests who are almost literally unable to set their kit up which sometimes leads us to wonder how well they know how to use it..

Interested in comments please..

Thanks
Jo


Your boss is a jerk.
 
Just curious ... have you had many sidemount customers? How does your crew deal with their setup?

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

We have not had any sidemount customers yet, but the crew is familiar with handing off stages to BM divers in doubles and rebreathers. The tech guys are pretty self sufficient and we help where asked. Recreational sidemount has not appeared over here yet.
 
Your boss is a jerk.


Why would he be a jerk if he thinks his staff should be trained to help the guests with their gear?

If the diving is that risky there then no "typical recreational diver" of today's standards should be allowed to jump in without being checked out by the divemasters anyway.

I see people here saying "don't touch my gear" that have some experience dealing with recreational divers so I understand it is a personal issue, but the bottom line is that there are so many diver/travelers that fly half way around the world to do their 10 dives a year that NEED help setting up and getting in and out of the water safely. If you own a dive shop/operation I think you need to accept that and train the staff/divemaster/instructors to help these guests out in a diplomatic way.

It's not like they are sitting back and being fanned while some deck hand from the hills is analyzing their technical gas mix before a cave dive.
 
Given the litigious nature of most societies today, I, if I owned the shop, would not allow the crew to set up individuals' rigs simply because of the exponentially increased liability aspect.

the K
 
Why would he be a jerk if he thinks his staff should be trained to help the guests with their gear?

I see people here saying "don't touch my gear" that have some experience dealing with recreational divers so I understand it is a personal issue, but the bottom line is that there are so many diver/travelers that fly half way around the world to do their 10 dives a year that NEED help setting up and getting in and out of the water safely. If you own a dive shop/operation I think you need to accept that and train the staff/divemaster/instructors to help these guests out in a diplomatic way.

It's not like they are sitting back and being fanned while some deck hand from the hills is analyzing their technical gas mix before a cave dive.

For those 10 dive a year divers that need help with their gear you could have a point. What baffles me though is those qualified divers who might not be comfy setting up their own equipement will now be at ease having non-diving qualified personnel touch and set-up their equipment as when I refer OP statement, the boat crew does not even appear to be diving certified.

Again, there is a big difference passing cameras, stage bottles and what have you to and from divers, assist them gettting off and back on the boat, etc with tampering with their equipment ie reg, BC/plates, valve especially as non divers. Considering that you do not even know who you might be dealing with, I just prefer to be the only one setting and adjusting my equipment. That way if something happen to it, I will only have myself to blame.

In Mar 09, I went Cozumel...first experience boat diving. The crew went head over heels to assist divers, to the point of assembling equipement, turning valve, etc. As part of that eagerness, I still vividly recall a diving tank being handled by one of the boat staff tumbling head down to the floor with first stage attached and being damaged in the process. I think this occured on the first or second day of a week long diving trip...and as Murphy would have it, the reg was not a rental. So the diver ended up with a cheapy complimentary reg for the remainder of the week and had to cough up repair cost once back home. Accident happens...sure, but they should not be at my expense either.

For the OP...the bottom line is ask the customers first but do not be surprised if you hear No thank you. Second point, if you are offering such services on your boat, only diving qualified personnel should accomplish such task and not any deck hand crew. The latter are very useful on boats and can provide valuable services to divers beside setting up equipment.
 
You really, really, really don't need to be a certified diver, a high school graduate, competent in English or more than moderately intelligent to be able to be trained to attach a BCD and a regulator to a tank. It ain't rocket science and open water students do it all the time after being shown once or twice.

That said, I am happy with people who prefer to do it themselves but are they really so afraid that they are not competent enough to catch someone else's potential mistake? And "preferring to do it yourself (which I do) is vastly different from the "if you touch my gear, I kill you" mentality. Oops. I said that already.
 
I think this is one of those areas that points to the difference between the typical SB diver and the typical recreational diver ... the vast majority of the latter would consider it a service to have a crew member setting up their gear.

The first time I encountered this was in Roatan ... and I was a bit taken aback by the idea that someone else wanted to set up my gear. When I noticed how he'd done it, I asked the boat crew to just let me do my own setting up. He told me that it was resort policy that the crew does it for me. OK ... so I then showed him how to do it to my liking. The rest of the week all I had to do was check it.

No matter who sets up your equipment ... it is still your responsibility to check it and make sure it's right. That includes testing that valve handle and making sure your air is on ... in my kitting up routine, I check that four or five times before I get into the rig ... even when I'm setting up my own equipment ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/teric/

Back
Top Bottom