Bolt Snap for Primary Reg

[BarryNL]

A too large snap is my worry, that's why I'm looking for advice on what's the "right" size (i.e. big enough to function, but otherwise as small as possible). If anyone has specific recommendations (links appreciated), I'd be very grateful.

It will also depend on the gloves you wear - the small, fiddly ones are fine with bare hands, but much too difficult with 5mm gloves on.

 

[BarryNL]

I never understood this one. Why/when would you have to cut the boltsnap from your primary?

When the boltsnap jams - and it does happen.

Personally, I use O-rings to attach the boltsnaps so that, in an emergency, I can just twist and yank the thing to snap it.

 

[Pathfinder]

The O ring method is great if you need something "NOW". The problem with the tank o rings is they break when sneezed on. Simply go to an automotive supply store where they have o rings in many different sizes and thickness'. Select the one that breaks with the amount of force you want but isn't too flimsy. Buy 'em by the bagload and you're good for years.

Dave

 

[Meng_Tze]

When the boltsnap jams - and it does happen.

Personally, I use O-rings to attach the boltsnaps so that, in an emergency, I can just twist and yank the thing to snap it.

Not with quality and grit free snaps.......I have never heard of an instance where this did happen....

And BTW, you would know that there is an issue before the dive since you put the gear on (snapping on) and above all would have the long hose snap free most of the time (primary in mouth).... The only time you would have the primary hose clipped off is out of the water, or in case of a primary issue and going to backup. But then you would not be using the primary anymore..?

 

[DIR-Atlanta]

The only time you would have the primary hose clipped off is out of the water, or in case of a primary issue and going to backup.

Or if you were breathing from a stage or deco bottle, or using a rebreather with OC available as bailout/backup.

 

[Scared Silly]

From the DIR perspective is using a swivel bolt snap the only acceptable solution? I am currently using a hook and pile to "clip" my primary off. The reason I am using it is
1) I have some extra sets lying around.
2) If the reg is clipped off and I really need to get it I can just pull it away.
3) I did not like the size of even the smallest clips hanging off my primary.
4) Easy to attach with and with out gloves.

The only draw backs that I know of currently it is that the only place I can clip it off is where the hook is located, currently on my right should D ring. But that is where I would attach the reg with a swivel bolt clip. The other draw back is that it can be pulled a part when you may not want it a part.

 

[jagfish]

When the boltsnap jams - and it does happen.

The only incidence of this I have heard described was GI on the first set (?) of GUE DVDs where he and JJ are having a fireside chat. He talkas about a cave where the silt was so fine that it built up in the boltsnaps and they jammed.

It:s obviously unlikely, but why not plan for such a contingency since it doesn't take much effort...

 

[DIR-Atlanta]

From the DIR perspective is using a swivel bolt snap the only acceptable solution?

Pretty much, yes - bolt snaps are (and have been) the preferred method for this for quite some time.

I am currently using a hook and pile to "clip" my primary off.

I'm not familiar with the term "hook and pile" - I assume you are referring to Velcro or something similar? If so, then you have already mentioned why that might not be such a good choice - The other draw back is that it can be pulled a part when you may not want it a part. Not to mention that the "pile" part of Velcro will wear thin over time, reducing the security of the connection (which of course compounds the problem of accidentally pulling it apart).

I hear a lot of people complaining about small snaps and thick gloves. if you look at the part of the snap that your finger actually goes on (the button on the plunger mechanism), then what you will find is that it is the same size on virtually every snap. This is true independent of the actual size of the swivel ring. I think the main problem that people have with the smaller snaps is that they are a little clumsy at first with manipulating the plunger. This improves with time and practice.

I personally use the smallest snaps I can find for my second stages, and I although I don't often dive with gloves, I don't really have any problems with them (even in cold water with 5mm gloves). I do find it much easier in that situation to push the plunger button with my index finger than my thumb - maybe that would work better for some of you all as well.

 

[DIR-Atlanta]

I will go ahead and add zip ties on either side to help prevent slippage in either direction.

I would recommend against the use of zip ties for this application. They aren't really necessary if the knot is tied correctly and in the proper location.

You really want the knot tied on the metal collar of the swage fitting. If you look at almost any swage connection you will see that it has a slight hourglass shape to it. It's actually pretty obvious in this photo:

Notice that there is a slight expansion of the fitting where it meets the hose. If you tie the knot good and tight and directly over the metal, then the clip will not move past that hump. This eliminates the perceived problem of having the clip move up the hose (and also the perceived need for zip ties to keep it in place).

Also, I use a different knot for the second stage clip than what I use for backup lights and SPG. It's one that was recommended to me once upon a time by Todd Leonard (I think), and it has worked quite well for that particular application. There used to be a picture of it on-line somewhere, but I can't find it now. If I get a chance this week, I'll upload a pic from my own rig so that you all can see the difference.

 

[CompuDude]

I would recommend against the use of zip ties for this application. They aren't really necessary if the knot is tied correctly and in the proper location.

You really want the knot tied on the metal collar of the swage fitting. If you look at almost any swage connection you will see that it has a slight hourglass shape to it. It's actually pretty obvious in this photo:

Notice that there is a slight expansion of the fitting where it meets the hose. If you tie the knot good and tight and directly over the metal, then the clip will not move past that hump. This eliminates the perceived problem of having the clip move up the hose (and also the perceived need for zip ties to keep it in place).

Also, I use a different knot for the second stage clip than what I use for backup lights and SPG. It's one that was recommended to me once upon a time by Todd Leonard (I think), and it has worked quite well for that particular application. There used to be a picture of it on-line somewhere, but I can't find it now. If I get a chance this week, I'll upload a pic from my own rig so that you all can see the difference.

Thanks for the thoughts.

I considered moving the connection's location onto the metal, but it seemed a little too close the reg... it would be hitting it all the time. Also, on smooth metal that is actual more cone-shaped than hourglass-shaped, the knot is going to naturally follow the curve towards the skinny end and end up seating itself against the swivel joint. That struck me as a bad thing, thus my decision to keep it on the rubber. Should I not worry about that?

I would love to see your alternate knot. The only ones I have been able to find after quite a bit searching (many months ago) are the two that SparticleBrane linked earlier in this thread, and they're both the exact same knot. Actually, there is a third I've seen linked in a number of places, but the link is dead...