BP/W for me and my son?

[scubadada]

I would say a STEEL plate, not aluminum or kydex, is ideal for an aluminum tank with a 3 mm wetsuit. A steel plate plus harness is about 6 lbs, I think. With a steel plate and aluminum tank, in my 3 mm wetsuit, I don't carry any ditchable lead at all. (It's not like ditching a mere 2 lbs. of lead or so is going to make the difference between me being able to reach the surface or sinking into the abyss.) Maybe if by "tropics" you mean diving in nothing but a bathing suit then I might agree aluminum or kydex would be optimal, but I never go without a full suit for protection against abrasions, stings, etc.

I use a steel cylinder and wear a 3mm wetsuit all summer and fall in Florida, a steel plate is too much for me, I'm several pounds too heavy. I'm OK with an aluminum cylinder. The water is quite warm, many people dive in a swimsuit, especially on the reefs.

Ideally, one has 2 plates to suit all circumstances without compromise

 

[dmaziuk]

A BP/W may be hazardous due to the fact that you will find yourself overweighted without the ability to drop weight in an emergency!

Lead may be hazardous to your health because if you eat a lot of it you will find yourself overweighted without the ability to drop weight in an emergency! And that other thing too.

 

[JohnnyC]

If you plan to do most of your diving in the tropics ( warm water ), your suit is 3mm or thinner & you have a low % of fat, then a BP/W may be a poor choice and even hazardous.

It may be a poor choice because you may find yourself overweighted. This circumstance will lead you to having to put too much air in your wing ( B.C. ) making buoyancy more difficult.

A BP/W may be hazardous due to the fact that you will find yourself overweighted without the ability to drop weight in an emergency!

Bull****. I dive in the tropics with a steel BP/W in a rash guard and board shorts with an 18lb Oxycheq travel wing and have zero issues whatsoever. It's just not that much weight. And if you can't swim up that little amount of weight, you shouldn't be diving in the first place because you're clearly not in shape enough to accomplish even the most minor amount of, and I say this while trying to stifle my laughter, "strenuous activity."

 

[bryanmc57]

I'm the same as Johnny... In Cozumel I dive a DSS long steel plate, Torus 17 wing, aluminum 80 in board shorts and a rash guard. In warm fresh water I dive the same rig in a full 3mm. No additional weight in either configuration and I have no trouble swimming the rig up. With 500 psi at 15 ft I'm neutral with no air in my wing.

 

[cool_hardware52]

There are jacket BC's that don't give you that squeeze, but it sounds like you prefer a back floatation B.C.

A BP/W may be your best option depending on the answer to these questions:

Where are you going to do most of your diving? Tropical ( warm water ) or local ( colder water ).

What is the thinnest suit that you plan to wear for diving? No suit, lycra, .5mm, 1mm, 2.5mm shorty, 3mm or 5mm or thicker.

What is your percentage body fat?

If you plan to mainly dive in Ohio & your thinnest suit is a 5mm or thicker & you have a high % of fat, then a BP/W is for you.

If you plan to do most of your diving in the tropics ( warm water ), your suit is 3mm or thinner & you have a low % of fat, then a BP/W may be a poor choice and even hazardous.

It may be a poor choice because you may find yourself overweighted. This circumstance will lead you to having to put too much air in your wing ( B.C. ) making buoyancy more difficult.

A BP/W may be hazardous due to the fact that you will find yourself overweighted without the ability to drop weight in an emergency!

I spend a great deal of time educating divers about hazards of being over weighted. Being over weighted is a bad thing, and contributes to injuries and deaths

My definition of ideal weighting is being able to hold a shallow stop with an empty tank and an empty bc.

Are there combinations of Backplates and wings that will over weight a diver in tropical conditions? Sure. Off the top of my head (assuming the diver is close to neutral in just a swimsuit) Buoyant Al 80's and no exposure suit or negative steel tanks and thin suits can be bad combinations to use with a negative Stainless Steel Plate.

**The solution is a lightweight, much less negative back plate.** DSS offers Kydex plates and numerous vendors offer Aluminum plates with similar buoyancy characteristics.

Are there exposure suit / tank combos that will still leave a dive overweighted even with a light weight plate?

Sure. The Classic example is a neutral (or fit, negative) diver using a negative steel tank. Even the lightest back plates may leave then over weighted. If divers start -1~2 lbs pounds adds a regulator (~-2 lbs) and a negative steel tank (typically ~-2lbs) They will be about -6 lbs at a shallow stop with a near empty tank. These is *no* back plate that will solve this over weighted condition. The solution is to change to a buoyant tanks (al 80), or add exposure suit. I have this conversation weekly.

What puzzles me is how this has morphed into a blanket admonition from to avoid BP&W's, and that they are hazardous. Any gear can be hazardous is it is selected wrongly by an unknowing diver.

Tobin

 

[dumpsterDiver]

Good to see you call BS on someone who is Calling BS.

In warmwater, with a big steel tank, a not fat diver - even an aluminum plate can make a rig heavier than it should be. I personally deal with it, but I am not skinny (at all) and I am willing to kick up a little if I have a BC failure.

Avoiding a condition of overweighting and having no ditchable lead is EXTREMELY important for safety in my mind.

However, I think an aluminum tank and an aluminum backplate should be workable for most any diver, even with zero exposure protection.

 

[cool_hardware52]

Yes, in most cases. That's pretty much what I said. I did note that a neutral diver, al 80 and stainless plate is not the best choice.

Tobin

 

[Diving Dubai]

For the record:

I now dive a Transpac Harness thus no back plate what so ever and deal with the fact I am slightly over weighted at the end of a dive when wearing Sharkskin exposure suits (neutral buoyant) Normally I dive a 15l Steel (-4 empty) so for the summer months deal with it. On vacation I was using an S100 and even when it was at 30bar I still had a little air in my wing but no more than 2 - 4 lbs (I guess) I'm 6'2 and weight 205lbs none of which can be considered an athletic build We always carry a slide slung S40 or S50 for piece of mind which of course adds a little more weight

My first wing had a SS plate and it was only when I got to a 3mm suit that I carried no additional weight, the next season I switched to an Al plate, and with the increase in experience again found myself "feeling" over weighted by the time I was in a 3mm

If I'm being brutally honest over those 2 seasons I also increased my bio prene

I also use a 36lb wing (dive Rite Voyager) The reason being is not for lift but more for comfort at the surface. I tried a smaller wing with a lighter tank but it never "felt" right. I will accept I may have not had the harness perfectly set up Its also likely my not feeling comfortable at the surface (as opposed to my previous bladder) was something in my head. Whatever. physiologically I've always been happier at the surface at the end of a dive floating on my back with the bigger wing. Having seen pictures of myself under water - it never looks like its taco-ed but equally it never looks as compact as say a Halcyon of oxycheck wing on the dive deck.

I could I suppose wean myself away from using a steel 15l and move to a Steel 12l (-2) but I like the security of having for the most part an excess of gas at the end of a dive (we limit dives to 60 mins) as it gives a piece of mind (along with a S40 as a redundant supply)

I'm never massively over weighted - I could I suppose revert to a 3mm but I much prefer the comfort and quick drying of my Sharkskin exposure suit. It is what it is (unless someone here has a solution)

 

[Centrals]

If you plan to do most of your diving in the tropics ( warm water ), your suit is 3mm or thinner & you have a low % of fat, then a BP/W may be a poor choice and even hazardous.

It may be a poor choice because you may find yourself overweighted. This circumstance will lead you to having to put too much air in your wing ( B.C. ) making buoyancy more difficult.

A BP/W may be hazardous due to the fact that you will find yourself overweighted without the ability to drop weight in an emergency!

You cannot be serious!!!!
I dive more or less exclusively in tropical warm water. With an Aluminium plate and tank , a canister light(1kg) + 30lbs wing, I need about 2kg of extra weight if wearing 3mm wet suit.

 

[halocline]

Why would you want to attach a metal plate to your son? Isn't he already negatively buoyant? Do you really want to travel with a piece of metal to Belize?

Unfortunately this post is a bit typical of the naked sales crap that some dive shops try to feed new divers in hopes that their inexperience will make them buy it. (literally as well as figuratively!)

For example:

1. All divers have a large metal object "attached", it's called the tank. Did you forget about that? The plate simply spreads out the point of contact so that it's not simply a cylinder rolling around on your back.
2. Assuming the tank rental in Belize is an AL80, and assuming there is some sort of wetsuit involved, that's probably 10lbs positive buoyancy right there. As a supposed dive 'professional', you do have some idea about the buoyancy characteristics of neoprene and an empty AL80, don't you?
3. In terms of travel, a BP/W frequently weighs less, and takes up much less room, than a bloated padded jacket BC, like, oh let's say, the SP classic, which weighs over 10 lbs and provides ZERO ballast. So add 5-6 lbs of lead to that 10 lbs for geared-up-weight.

If you're going to use this board for shameless sales attempts, at least try to keep the mis-information to a reasonable level.

---------- Post added September 2nd, 2015 at 05:45 AM ----------

A BP/W may be hazardous due to the fact that you will find yourself overweighted without the ability to drop weight in an emergency!

I think what you meant to say is:

A BP/W may be hazardous due to the fact that you will find yourself overjoyed that you didn't drop money on a bloated overpriced jacket BC!