BP/W set up help/advice

[flyingvisit]

I'm still a novice diver at this stage, but trying to put my own gear together gradually (thinking its better to dive with my own gear than rental gear all the time). With only 4 dives since certification (although planning many many more through the next few months), maybe I'm rushing this...

Anyway, during training and when I'm renting I've mainly used the Zeagle Escape which I understand is a Back Inflate style. I've also used another type, but I can't remember what it was and wouldn't care for it anyway as it wasn't comfortable (probably a "stab jacket style").

For my own gear, I was looking at other Zeagle BCs at first, also being back inflate, but one of the more "streamlined" versions (Stiletto/Ranger) but reading through threads on here, it might be better to go the whole way and go BP/W. I'm kind of a weird shape and I think that a BP/W will be more comfortable also (I'm a female diver ). I've also been taking a LOT of lead to sink, like 20-22lbs in a 3mm shortie. I fear to think what I'll need in a 7mm... So I'm hoping that a BP/W set up will take some of that lead off.

I'm hoping for some advice regarding set ups. Obviously basic tips like recommended plates/wings. I need something a) fairly lightweight (I travel a LOT for work and take my gear with me) b) 2 tank bands - I don't like having only 1 tank band c) has to be easy to modify for both tropical and cold water diving as I plan to dive in the UK, and not just when I'm abroad in the sunnier places. d) I'd like weights in pockets (quick release???) rather than on a weight belt.

Also, as well as these sort of tips, I was hoping for some advice, if anyone knows where I might go in the Tampa area that could help me out with my gear? I'm hopefully going to be there (again) between Jan - April. It would be really useful if I could try stuff on/out and have someone actually help me dive the gear? Particularly getting the weighting right!! Might be being a bit hopeful/cheeky but I feel there is no harm in asking!!!!

 

[cave_diver_rob]

I would recommend the dive rite trans plate. You will need to purchase single tank adapters. The trans plate usually comes with a trek wing which is perfect for single tanks, and later on down the road small doubles. Check out www.diverite.com they also have a trans pac which is not a bad set up. Good luck and hopefully this might assist you in some sort of way.

 

[adm3745]

For the back inflation style route: My girlfriend dives the Zeagle Lazer. It's the female version of the Stiletto basically. Its light, comfortable and she loves it. It also has the ripcord system so if you need to ditch weight, you just pull the "ripcord" and it drops without losing any pockets.

For backplates, it sounds like youd be better off in a stainless steel plate. Dive Rite makes good and very cheap stuff. Every other brand: DSS, Halcyon, Oxycheq... Are all good any everyone on the board has their on opinions.

I'd recomend Halcyon, Oxycheq, Dive Rite in that order. The new infinity system from Halcyon is very versatile in regards to changing suits.

 

[cool_hardware52]

I'm still a novice diver at this stage, but trying to put my own gear together gradually (thinking its better to dive with my own gear than rental gear all the time). With only 4 dives since certification (although planning many many more through the next few months), maybe I'm rushing this...

Anyway, during training and when I'm renting I've mainly used the Zeagle Escape which I understand is a Back Inflate style. I've also used another type, but I can't remember what it was and wouldn't care for it anyway as it wasn't comfortable (probably a "stab jacket style").

For my own gear, I was looking at other Zeagle BCs at first, also being back inflate, but one of the more "streamlined" versions (Stiletto/Ranger) but reading through threads on here, it might be better to go the whole way and go BP/W. I'm kind of a weird shape and I think that a BP/W will be more comfortable also (I'm a female diver ). I've also been taking a LOT of lead to sink, like 20-22lbs in a 3mm shortie. I fear to think what I'll need in a 7mm... So I'm hoping that a BP/W set up will take some of that lead off.

I'm hoping for some advice regarding set ups. Obviously basic tips like recommended plates/wings. I need something a) fairly lightweight (I travel a LOT for work and take my gear with me) b) 2 tank bands - I don't like having only 1 tank band c) has to be easy to modify for both tropical and cold water diving as I plan to dive in the UK, and not just when I'm abroad in the sunnier places. d) I'd like weights in pockets (quick release???) rather than on a weight belt.

Also, as well as these sort of tips, I was hoping for some advice, if anyone knows where I might go in the Tampa area that could help me out with my gear? I'm hopefully going to be there (again) between Jan - April. It would be really useful if I could try stuff on/out and have someone actually help me dive the gear? Particularly getting the weighting right!! Might be being a bit hopeful/cheeky but I feel there is no harm in asking!!!!

Flyingvisit,

22 lbs in a 3mm shortie is a lot of weight. I'd strongly suggest that before you buy any gear you need to determine the buoyancy of the exposure suits you will be using, and also determine if you are very personally buoyant.

Divers that need a lot of ballast typically benefit from a Stainless Steel plate, and the buoyancy of your exposure suit is the primary factor in selecting the proper size wing.

A typical 3mm shortie is only a few lbs positive, maybe 2-3 lbs, and the common aluminum 80 cylinder is 4 lbs positive when empty (about +3 @ 500 psi)

Many jacket BC's are inherently buoyant by 2-4 lbs due to foam padding. Any trapped gas, i.e. gas you cannot fully vent adds to this buoyancy.

If you had 22 lbs of lead your total balast was more like 24 lbs when you include the ~2 lbs of regulator.

24 lbs total - 3lbs (your 3mm shortie) - 3 (near empty cylinder) - 4 (inherently buoyant bc) = 14 lbs.

Very very few divers will be +14 lbs in their birthday suit.

Divers wear BC's or Buoyancy Compensators in order to compensate for things that loose buoyancy as they descend.

Your body does not loose buoyancy as you descend, but your wetsuit will compress. Thicker wetsuits are more buoyant, require more ballast, and compress more as you go deeper.

Thicker suits require larger wings.

If you do a careful job of selecting your cold water wing, it's very likely that it will be OK for warm water too.

Test your own buoyancy, and test a few suits before you start looking for a BP&W.


If you have access to a pool take advantage. Bring some lead in a bag. Get in to neck deep water in just your swim suit. If you can stand up in neck deep water with no lead you aren't 14 lbs positive.

Add to the bag until you just barely sink when you pick up your feet off the bottom. Weight the lead.

To convert to salt water add 1 lbs of ballast for every 40 lbs of diver.

To test a wetsuit just roll it up and throw it in the pool, add lead until it sinks.

Keep in mind that many new divers have trouble descending because they don't exhale, they keep finning, and they haven't mastered fully venting their BC.

Good luck, getting your gear sorted is part of the fun.

Tobin

 

[Mayor]

Flyingvisit,

22 lbs in a 3mm shortie is a lot of weight. I'd strongly suggest that before you buy any gear you need to determine the buoyancy of the exposure suits you will be using, and also determine if you are very personally buoyant.

Divers that need a lot of ballast typically benefit from a Stainless Steel plate, and the buoyancy of your exposure suit is the primary factor in selecting the proper size wing.

A typical 3mm shortie is only a few lbs positive, maybe 2-3 lbs, and the common aluminum 80 cylinder is 4 lbs positive when empty (about +3 @ 500 psi)

Many jacket BC's are inherently buoyant by 2-4 lbs due to foam padding. Any trapped gas, i.e. gas you cannot fully vent adds to this buoyancy.

If you had 22 lbs of lead your total balast was more like 24 lbs when you include the ~2 lbs of regulator.

24 lbs total - 3lbs (your 3mm shortie) - 3 (near empty cylinder) - 4 (inherently buoyant bc) = 14 lbs.

Very very few divers will be +14 lbs in their birthday suit.

Divers wear BC's or Buoyancy Compensators in order to compensate for things that loose buoyancy as they descend.

Your body does not loose buoyancy as you descend, but your wetsuit will compress. Thicker wetsuits are more buoyant, require more ballast, and compress more as you go deeper.

Thicker suits require larger wings.

If you do a careful job of selecting your cold water wing, it's very likely that it will be OK for warm water too.

Test your own buoyancy, and test a few suits before you start looking for a BP&W.


If you have access to a pool take advantage. Bring some lead in a bag. Get in to neck deep water in just your swim suit. If you can stand up in neck deep water with no lead you aren't 14 lbs positive.

Add to the bag until you just barely sink when you pick up your feet off the bottom. Weight the lead.

To convert to salt water add 1 lbs of ballast for every 40 lbs of diver.

To test a wetsuit just roll it up and throw it in the pool, add lead until it sinks.

Keep in mind that many new divers have trouble descending because they don't exhale, they keep finning, and they haven't mastered fully venting their BC.

Good luck, getting your gear sorted is part of the fun.

Tobin

Always great information!!!

 

[paddler3d]

I've found that the BP/W combo travels real well.

I started off in the Dive Rite Trans Plate. The plate was SS. I shortly ditched the harness that it came with and went with a simple one piece harness and I wear a weight belt if needed.

It pack real flat. I haven't seen any other BC system back this flat. Also with the wing, it is around 6#'s. Which for the most part is only like a pound heavier than non BP/W systems.

If you need extra weight, dive operators always seem to provide weight belts.

As you grow as a diver, I'm referring to experience, you can keep the same harness and BP, but get new wings.

For years I dove a single tank on a BP with the two cam bands. I'd suggest looking at the various Single Tank Adaptors out there. I believe almost all the STA's are a double bang config.

Good luck!

BTW - 22#'s for a single tank with a 3mm shortie is a lot of weight. In a full 3mm suit with a SS backplate and an AL80 in salt water, I only need 4-5#'s of lead on my belt. As you get more experience, you'll find the amount of lead you need will decrease.

 

[rrweather]

Tobin provided great information. The only thing I can add is experience with integrated weights. If you buy integrated weight pockets to use with your BP/W (or ANY BC you buy), check the weight capacity of those pockets. Most are designed to hold around 10lbs. each. So if you need more than 20 lbs, you'd have to add weight somewhere else (like a SS BP). Obviously, when you go to cold water and wear a thicker suit, you will need more lead. This will probably put you over your weight pocket capacity. The cool thing is you could use the weight pockets for warm water diving when you need less weight. Then if you dive someplace cold where you need more weight, just take the pockets off and use a traditional weight belt. That is the beauty of a BP/W. Obviously this isn't always a possibility with traditional BCs.

If you elect to use the weight pockets and need more weight, you can always add cam band weight pockets. This is how I had to get by with my weight pockets and a drysuit. My weight pockets hold 10lbs. each and I needed 36 lbs. with my drysuit. The disadvantage to this is your setup weighs a ton when the weight pockets are full and you have more weight on the cam bands. I actually ordered a regular weight belt that I am going to use when I am diving my drysuit and I am saving the weight pockets for when I travel to warm water dive spots.

 

[cool_hardware52]

The only thing I can add is experience with integrated weights.
If you elect to use the weight pockets and need more weight, you can always add cam band weight pockets.

This is a bit beyond where our OP is, but I did want to mention the impacts of hanging all your required ballast on the rig.

The minimum ballast we need is equal to the buoyancy of our exposure suit at our shallow stop when the cylinder is (near) empty.

Lets say Diver X needs 22 lbs of ballast at 15 ft with an empty 100 cu ft cylinder.

If all this ballast is mounted on their rig, then it follows that with a full cylinder their rig will be 8 lbs more negative (100 cu ft air = ~8 lbs.)

Now their rig is not -22 lbs but is -30 lbs. This will require a wing greater than 30 lbs to ensure it floats if ditched, i.e. 35 or 40 lbs wing.

OTOH if the diver chooses to wear a 6 lbs weight belt their rig will be only -24 lbs with a full cylinder. That makes a 26 - 30 lbs wing a reasonable choice.

If the diver plans only diving in cold water a 35 lbs wing vs a 26 makes little difference. All the required gear for cold water diving , 7mm suit or dry suit etc. is sufficient burden to make the difference in wing size a low order choice.

OTOH if our diver wants to use the same wing for cold and warm water keeping the cold water wing pays benefits when it's used in warm conditions.

In a 3mm suit and al 80 divers need very little wing, and towing around a 35 lbs or 40 lbs in the tropics when they could have been using a 26 will defeat some of the streamlining advantages of a BP&W.

Many customers come to me stating they will never wear a weight belt, and that's very understandable when they have been using 20+ lbs.

With the right components and an improved understanding of weighting they often end up with 4-6-8 lbs weight belts. Almost any diver can manage a 6 lbs belt.

Belts are usually much less expensive than pockets too.

Tobin

 

[keithdiver]

Great answer , Tobin is correct LOL on your rig.

 

[Bonairetrip]

As with everything, there are trade offs that must be made.

Weight & Travel -- IMHO, the single best way to get rid of some weight is to go with a stainless backplate. This means the unit is not super lightweight for travel. I travel with my stainless backplate and wings (DSS) without problem and find it very easy to pack. Even with the plate, it is not that much heavier than many regular BCs out there.

That said, if you are looking for a travel rig, you could go with something like a kydex plate and wing or some of the pretty light regular style BCs. Very light for travel but doesn't allow you to reduce your weight much. As I said, I went with a Deep Sea Supply stainless steel plate and wing for travel and am very happy with it.

Weight Belts & Such -- I use the DUI classic Weight & Trim harness. A regular weight belt tends to slide off my hips. And the harness is just more comfortable than a belt. I am also very happy with it.

By not doing weights integrated into the plate/wings/bc, it means that the kit is easier to doff/don (and I can get by with a smaller lift wing). There are also ways of adding non-ditchable weight to the kit -- bolt on plates, STA weights, etc.

Tropical vs. Local -- You will need more weight with a 7mm than a 3mm. One way you could get partly there is to use HP steel tanks when you dive locally vs. the aluminum 80s that are at most tropical resorts.