Can a split fin do the Frog Kick, Backward Kick, and Helicopter Turn ?

[phhappy]

I am a newly certified Open Water diver with only 17 shallow logged dives. I have bought a DVD that teachs Modified Flutter Kick, Frog Kick,Backward Kick and Helicopter Turn. I am now using a full foot VoloRace by Mares, and I am interested in buying a half foot fin also. I just want to know if I, as a beginner, will be able to learn the above different kicking techniques with a pair split fin?

I have read a review from DiverNet that both the X-pert Zoom by Tusa and Apollo Bio Fins Pro are very good fin. Will I be able to learn the kicks with either one of these fin?

Any information that you can share will be much appreciated.

Thank you.

 

[bradshsi]

I am a newly certified Open Water diver with only 17 shallow logged dives. I have bought a DVD that teachs Modified Flutter Kick, Frog Kick,Backward Kick and Helicopter Turn. I am now using a full foot VoloRace by Mares, and I am interested in buying a half foot fin also. I just want to know if I, as a beginner, will be able to learn the above different kicking techniques with a pair split fin?

Thank you.

Well the short answer is that people have learned to do the above kicks with split fins. For example here is discussion on finning backwards:

http://dive.scubadiving.com/members/gearreviews.php?s=503

Having said that the consensus seems to be that it is harder to learn and perform them with a split fin due to there being less feedback or "feel". (There will probably also be people who post saying that it's impossible to do these kicks with split fins despite the evidence showing otherwise).

Personally I can do these kicks with the exception of the back kick using either split or paddle fins. My view is that it easier to learn them with paddle fins.

Sadly even with paddle fins I am still a hopeless case when it comes to back kicks.

 

[PenguinAdLitem]

I can frog (not very well, yet, but I'm working on it) in my Bio Fins. I cannot backward kick, but that has more to do with me than the fins I fear. My frog kick is not particularly pretty, and it looks different from the kick I see people in blades doing. More ankle, less leg. I am also a beginner.

 

[Kwbyron]

I can do them, although my fins are not fully split fins, just very flexible down the sides (TUSA Imprex). I am currently searching craigslist(or other classifieds) for some jetfins though...but I really don't want to spend more then $20 on them..I've digressed, YES! it can be done; but it's tricky.

 

[drl]

I can frog kick and helicopter turn with my split fins. I have yet to master the backwards kick with any fin! (I also have paddle fins for wreck diving; my old ones wouldn't fit over my drysuit boots).

Deborah

 

[MikeFerrara]

I looked at the referenced article and one thing really stuck out. Here's a quote from the 2003 pool testing link.

Additional comments on backward finning

I find backward finning to be an intriguing but difficult skill. Speaking for myself I have found it, so far, NOT to be like riding a bicycle (that is, once you've learned it, you never lose it)! After I did my preliminary learning in the pool, I tried to fin backwards several times under different conditions and with different fins in open water dives. Sometimes I could do it and sometimes I couldn't, as I found when I asked other divers (who told me they could do it) to demonstrate to me -- sometimes they could and sometimes they couldn't! Furthermore, when I went back to the pool (in the tests reported above), it was almost as if I had to learn backward finning all over again! Backward finning, at least for me, is difficult, variable, and seems not to be an easily retained skill. Although I have now done it many times, such as for the pool tests above, maybe I still haven't done it enough to get it completely fixed in my neuromuscular coordination.

When we measure the capability of a piece of equipment or the repeatability and reproducability of some type of guage we need to take the oporator variability into account. there are ways to do that bu they weren't employed here. The author gives plenty of clues about the inconsistancy with a reverse kick.

I haven't done it either but what I have done is tried these alternative kicks with several different kinds of split fins and I've also sent some of those fins to other divers to test. UP, reported on his tests here on the board.

I won't say that my reverse kick is good because I haven't measure it against any standard that can be used to defone "good" but I have been doing it for a long time and my backeward kick is consistant. Using the same kick, I find that there is a HUGE difference between the paddle fins that I've used and the split fins. Maybe there's a different kick that would work with the splits but I haven't looked for it.

I think the author contradicted himself in another way. He stated that he thinks the splits are more efficient because they push more water off the end of the fin resulting in more forward motion with less energy. I don't know if that's true or not and with a flutter kick we do want to push water off the end of the fin. What I do know is that when we do a classic reverse kick we aren't trying to push water off the end of the fin. We want the fin to work as a boat paddle works and we don't split our canoe paddles down the middle! the same is true for a forward frog kick and a helo turn as far as I can tell. It seems illogical to me to think that a split fin can push more water off the tips and more perpendicular to that at the same time. If that were true, it could not reduce kicking effort because you would have the same resistance to movement as with a paddle fin. It's exactly that resistance to movement on a paddle fin that maked it efficient for frog type kicks.

In my experience, the best way to move backwards with a split fin is to wear the fins on your hands and do a flutter kick.

I would however be very interested in diving with anyone who thinks they can get comparable frog kick performance in any direction with splits that I can with my paddles. Seeing is believeing and I am willing to watch and learn.

PS, the author uses a board held out in front of him to increase resistance. I wonder, does he use a board that is split down the middle?

 

[dherbman]

I am a newly certified Open Water diver with only 17 shallow logged dives. I have bought a DVD that teachs Modified Flutter Kick, Frog Kick,Backward Kick and Helicopter Turn. I am now using a full foot VoloRace by Mares, and I am interested in buying a half foot fin also. I just want to know if I, as a beginner, will be able to learn the above different kicking techniques with a pair split fin?

I have read a review from DiverNet that both the X-pert Zoom by Tusa and Apollo Bio Fins Pro are very good fin. Will I be able to learn the kicks with either one of these fin?

Any information that you can share will be much appreciated.

Thank you.

According to one experienced member, you can do a back kick in splits, but it takes three years to learn and isn't effective. It also depends on the fin. I've done the other kicks effectively with splits, but in terms of efficiency, they don't compare to the paddle style.

 

[Rick Murchison]

I find that for me, all kicks other than a basic flutter kick are less efficient in split fins than in paddle fins. A major sticking point for me is in sculls, where the split can make the fin all but useless - and if you're using backfinning and helicopter turns as a regular part of your diving then you're doing a lot of scull kicks too.
If my sole objective was to cover distance then splits might make sense for me, but as most of my finning is fine maneuvering for better observation of the critters I'm looking at or fine maneuvering with anti-silting technique in mind, I like and use a reasonably stiff paddle (Frogs are my favorite, with Jets a close second; AL Blades are very good but too big for my taste in tight places - still haven't tried the Dive-Rites yet)
Rick

 

[bradshsi]

I looked at the referenced article and one thing really stuck out. Here's a quote from the 2003 pool testing link.

When we measure the capability of a piece of equipment or the repeatability and reproducability of some type of guage we need to take the oporator variability into account. there are ways to do that bu they weren't employed here. The author gives plenty of clues about the inconsistancy with a reverse kick.

I haven't done it either but what I have done is tried these alternative kicks with several different kinds of split fins and I've also sent some of those fins to other divers to test. UP, reported on his tests here on the board.

I won't say that my reverse kick is good because I haven't measure it against any standard that can be used to defone "good" but I have been doing it for a long time and my backeward kick is consistant. Using the same kick, I find that there is a HUGE difference between the paddle fins that I've used and the split fins. Maybe there's a different kick that would work with the splits but I haven't looked for it.


I would however be very interested in diving with anyone who thinks they can get comparable frog kick performance in any direction with splits that I can with my paddles. Seeing is believeing and I am willing to watch and learn.

Here is an additional link where the same author discusses backward kicking in some more detail (together with some pretty graphs). As you pointed out the technique required for split fins seems to be quite different.

http://www.ndsu.nodak.edu/instruct/grier/fins-pool-2003.html


In so much as my limited experience has allowed, I'm in agreement with your comments on frog kicks. Paddle fins are more efficient for this type of kick.

 

[ScubaDivaDivemaster]

I use my Atmoic Aquatics and can do about anything in them. They are much stiffer than other splits I've seen.

C U underwater,
ScubaDivaDivemaster
I love www.CrazyScuba.com, they saved me LOTS of scuba money! :sappy: