Can you still buy Cipro in Coz w/o seeing a dr there?

[Mossman]

And it's risk management. There are times when the repercussions of getting ill are worse than others, so more prudence is indicated.

Exactly. Some dive boats have heads and some do not.

 

[DandyDon]

Everywhere but the island's east side where there is no refrigeration which is essentially what the science is saying. Most diarrheal illnesses are traced to foodstuffs which have not been properly refrigerated.

Don't get me wrong I eat the tortas and hotdogs in the zocolo as well but just don't put that mayo in the ketchup bottle basking in the sun on my food.

We had a related discussion here on this forum a couple of years ago, and I doubt that I could find it, but one boat crew member said that they took sandwich materials on their boats and often had to stop tourists who tried to put the mayo in the cooler as they never did - wasn't needed. She was referencing manufactured mayo, not homemade, and claimed that if it ever was refrigerated, then it needed to stay that way, but not if never.

Whether that last part is correct or not, I looked around various sites and opinions varied, perhaps from lack of supporting info and/or for lack of controls in the field, but most generally agreed....

Homemade mayo, which often includes raw egg, needs to be kept cold - and if you do not know the source, play safe and assume the warm mayo in the bowl is homemade and avoid.

Manufactured mayo really did not need to be refrigerated and some claimed it had bacterial controls. I think Texas state health and other departments say to keep it cooled, perhaps as an extra caution.

And then there's Miracle Whip which I grew up on - no refrigeration needed.​

I never refrigerate Miracle Whip, ketchup, manufactured salsa, and keep one stick of salted butter on a try in my cabinet - but then I do keep my house from going over 85F even on vacation and there is no sunlight to heat things inside.

 

[ggunn]

... She was referencing manufactured mayo, not homemade, and claimed that if it ever was refrigerated, then it needed to stay that way, but not if never..

That makes no sense whatsoever to me.

 

[MMM]

Manufactured mayo really did not need to be refrigerated and some claimed it had bacterial controls. I think Texas state health and other departments say to keep it cooled, perhaps as an extra caution.

I have a degree in Home Economics and while going to university, I worked summers in hospital kitchens so I've had a lot of academic and practical exposure to food prep and safety. Any mayo - manufactured or not - requires refrigeration (the processed stuff after it's been opened). The potato salad at the picnic is one of the top causes of food poisoning. Miracle Whip - it's not even real.

Unrefrigerated salsa will probably go mouldy eventually but would not be the first place to look for food poisoning, provided it was prepared with reasonably sanitary practices. Unsalted butter will go rancid sooner than salted butter but if you eat a lot of butter, you'll probably go through a stick fast enough and rancid won't cause food poisoning...it will just taste very, very bad.

 

[DandyDon]

Ok, I did not think I would find the thread after years, but there were actually less than 100 posts with the word, and I skipped over the ones about Cinco de Mayo.

That makes no sense whatsoever to me.

A few excerpts from the old thread....

Driftin' by------hmmm, I guess you can be proud of that "dollop" of mayo, but did you know that mayo ONLY goes bad if it has been refrigerated first and THEN goes to a warm place? I don't know a single local who keeps mayo in the fridge for this reason.....in 20 years MY mayo jars have never seen the inside of a fridge.......hahhaha! I KNOW that Americans think that the minute the jar is opened, it needs to be refrigerated and I KNOW it says that on the label........but, guess what! Not true!...........as for your comment that the way the locals live is "heartbreaking".........well, I guess I'll just stick with the mayo update...........Betsy

Why is that? I can't think of (or find) any reason why that may be true. I found several studies that show that the deterioration (as indexed by flavor change due to oxidation, not the growth of pathogens) of mayonnaise which has been exposed to air may be slowed by refrigeration, but none that suggest that refrigerating it and then storing it warm hastens its demise.

Yep!........once it's cold though, it has to stay cold.......(for all you picnic-ers out there!)......I can't tell you how many times well-intentioned gringos try to help clear up after our lunch on the boat and throw the mayo into the cooler.........the captain, mate, or myself would RUN to get it out!.........haha!

Yep, I found a few sites that agree - unless it's homemade mayo, altho I gave the wrong link. It takes me so long to go thru a quart tho that I'll keep it friged. Besides I use white salad dressing instead; who knows.

I also keep pickles, ketchup, jams and jellies in frig even tho not needed. Like 'em cold.

I cannot find any site that says it's okay to leave my butter in the cabinet, but I'm sticking with that.

Factory made mayo is considered safe at room temp because acidic pH and pasteurization. Excerpts from: Mayonnaise Spoilage Myths - Mayonnaise Safety

...commercial mayonnaise is loaded with acid and preservatives that can actually extend the life of salads by killing bacteria. The eggs used in prepared mayonnaise are pasteurized to kill harmful bacteria.

On the other hand, homemade mayonnaise carries more risk if not handled properly. Foods using homemade mayo should be eaten immediately or properly refrigerated. The best bet is to make up only the amount of mayonnaise that you need, and do not plan on leftovers.

Traditional homemade mayonnaise contains raw egg yolks. The perfect solution is to purchase irradiated eggs which are now available in most markets. Irradiated eggs carry no risk of salmonella contamination and are perfectly safe to use in raw preparations.

But then, I've been using Salad Dressing Spread instead of Mayo since my mom got in the habit of buying Miracle Whip before I was born - I just buy the store brand. It has less egg content, but I still frig it out of habit: Salad dressing spread - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Dang, if I don't keep jams, jelly, ketchup, mayo or salad dressing, pickles, relish, mustard in the frige door anymore - I'll have a lot more room for root beers...!! :beer:

BBQ sauce says in the fridge, tho. Can't find any support for leaving it out. Mostly foods with pH under 6 can be left out: US FDA pH of Foods and Food products

For my whole childhood & teen years, the butter was never refrigerated and we're (brothers, sisters & parents) still alive and kicking...

Butter is a problem here (Belize). If you leave it out it becomes liquid and goes rancid within a few hours, day or night. If you put it in the fridge it goes rock hard. Although I love butter I'm afraid I've conceded defeat and now use marg.

In a normal climate such as Britain I never put salted butter in the fridge, but unsalted butter goes off quickly and needs to be refrigerated (which is of course why butter is salted, not for the taste).

Since that discussion in 2008, I no longer keep jams, jelly, ketchup, mayo or salad dressing, pickles, relish, mustard in the frige door anymore.

 

[DandyDon]

I have a degree in Home Economics and while going to university, I worked summers in hospital kitchens so I've had a lot of academic and practical exposure to food prep and safety. Any mayo - manufactured or not - requires refrigeration (the processed stuff after it's been opened). The potato salad at the picnic is one of the top causes of food poisoning. Miracle Whip - it's not even real.

Unrefrigerated salsa will probably go mouldy eventually but would not be the first place to look for food poisoning, provided it was prepared with reasonably sanitary practices. Unsalted butter will go rancid sooner than salted butter but if you eat a lot of butter, you'll probably go through a stick fast enough and rancid won't cause food poisoning...it will just taste very, very bad.

OK. State health departments seem to agree with your training, whether correct or not.

 

[ggunn]

Ok, I did not think I would find the thread after years, but there were actually less than 100 posts with the word, and I skipped over the ones about Cinco de Mayo.

A few excerpts from the old thread....

Since that discussion in 2008, I no longer keep jams, jelly, ketchup, mayo or salad dressing, pickles, relish, mustard in the frige door anymore.

I thought I remembered going around that tree before, and three years later there still isn't any evidence to support the hypothesis that once you've refrigerated mayo then you need to keep doing so. Once you've opened it, maybe, but refrigeration does not activate any sort of decay mechanism that I know of or can even imagine. I think it is a textbook case of an old wives' tale.

And all that stuff continues to live in the fridge door at my house. It may not be necessary, but it does no harm, IMO, and I always know where to find it. YMMV.

 

[Blue Sparkle]

This is somewhat of an aside, but for those who are interested:

On sailboats there is often no refrigeration. I have kept mayo and other similar condiments unrefrigerated with no noticeable negative health effects (as have other sailors). A key point was to *never* put anything in the jar that was unclean. No double-dipping with the knife, etc. Of course that's a lot easier these days with squeeze containers as you don't need to put any utensil into the jar. I imagine it would be a lot more difficult to keep this sort of disciplined routine going in a restaurant or other place with many people accessing the food.

I have never heard of the "once refrigerated" for mayo specifically, but it does (seem to) hold true for eggs and produce. When I could get never-refrigerated eggs to start with, and with proper care, I was able to keep them for a looong time with no refrigeration - even in the tropics. Even better if they were not washed. Eggs that had been refrigerated at the store never kept as long in subsequent unrefrigerated storage.

Although produce is similar, it's more from a wilting/spoiling point of view than actual germs. Produce that has been refrigerated at the store, which you then buy and keep in unrefrigerated storage, won't last nearly as long as that which has never been refrigerated.

I don't know the biology/chemistry of any of the above - I'm just basing on my experience living without refrigeration, much of it being in the tropics.

 

[TwoBitTxn]

Salsas are pretty acidic from the tomatoes and lime juice so they're less likely to be the culprit than mayonnaise, the most vilified condiment (not only does it clog your arterties but it's a safe harbor for bacteria :shocked2.

Tomatoes have a pH of 4.2-4.3, while ETEC can only grow in a minimum pH of 4.4. Most bacteria prefer neutral pH ranges.
Chapter 3. Factors that Influence Microbial Growth

Actually, the FDA has classified cut tomatos as a (to use the old term) potentially hazardous food (PHF). The pH is no longer that low.

A UT study a number of years ago did find one of the greatest culprits for E. coli was the salsa. If I had a reference I would post it.

 

[MMM]

I have never heard of the "once refrigerated" for mayo specifically, but it does (seem to) hold true for eggs and produce. When I could get never-refrigerated eggs to start with, and with proper care, I was able to keep them for a looong time with no refrigeration - even in the tropics. Even better if they were not washed. Eggs that had been refrigerated at the store never kept as long in subsequent unrefrigerated storage.

Eggs in their shell will keep for a long, long time, refrigerated or not. Their freshness will vary and the effect that will have on the cooking. The air sac size changes with age affecting hard boiled eggs' yolk placement. Not the quality of the egg. Every tienda sells unfriegerated eggs and they sit there until they are sold. No problemo. It's not until the safety of the shell is compromised that eggs become a health issue.