Canadian diver and buddy rescued near Apo Island, Philippines

[Kevrumbo]

There are a number of Indonesian resorts where you need to go to a specific part of the island to get phone signal, which can be kilometres away from the dock and the resort itself, and some small, remote islands have no phone signal at all: I've dived from one (you take all the food and drink you'll need and they open the resort for you).

However, let's assume this resort/op does have phone coverage, by the time a boat has returned to dock, refuelled, loaded up with more fuel and headed out again (let's also assume the resort/operator/island has ample fuel reserves), you're still looking at guys using often inaccurate paper charts that they may not be very good at reading to aim for a latitude and longitude reading that will be at least an hour out of date by the time they get to the general search area. . .

Again @PygmySeahorse , even a delay of 9 hours worst case as above in the OP can be survivable -especially in tropical 80°F/27°C waters. (The WWII survivors of the torpedoed USS Indianapolis just barely endured four days at sea without any acknowledged report they were overdue or Naval Command's awareness of the sinking, before being luckily spotted by a routine air patrol and later rescued. . .)

●The less info SAR units have about your location, the larger the Search Area.
●The larger the Search Area, the longer the search until you are located.

Do whatever else you can to pack in your kit with the idea of giving more margin for survival and discovery in a delayed SAR sortie (signal mirror; primary led light; whistle/dive alert horn; sealed water source etc).

Dan you may want to read @IyaDiver's post #181 in the 7 divers lost off Bali thread, regarding SEA boats which don't have their own radios. Not instead of your list - in addition to.

Nautilus Lifeline

. . .Those have a high failure rate, and if they do work - they only reach as far as you can see, much less than claimed. Some people like to talk to their boats, if the boats have a radio turned on loud enough.

VHF beacons like the Nautilus Lifeline, and portable mobile VHF handhelds have a very limited & variable range, usually to the horizon 5km at best in high ocean swells and rain conditions, to 20km in clear calm conditions and a 30m tall receiving land based antenna at the other end.

So if you surface from a dive and your skiff is nowhere to be seen line-of-sight to the horizon for VHF radio communications in any direction, then you better have a PLB direct to satellite as back-up.

 

[PygmySeahorse]

Again @PygmySeahorse , even a delay of 9 hours worst case as above in the OP can be survivable -especially in tropical 80°F/27°C waters. .

I wouldn't debate you could survive nine hours in Indonesian waters quite comfortably: I've met someone who was drifting off Morotai for over 24 hours before a fishing boat picked him up (it felt like being born again, apparently).

But why do you think nine hours is the "worst case" scenario, here? We're talking about vast search areas - you can easily drift 10km in an hour in Indonesia, giving you a circle diameter of 20km, and that's assuming that it only takes an hour for your PLB location to reach the search boat and the search boat to reach that approximate location, which is optimistic. And you're looking at one or two boats with limited communication and navigation facilities.

I'd love to see an example where these sorts of precautions saved a life in places like Indonesia or the Philippines. I doubt there are any, and I'd guess that's because the type of person who dives with a PLB etc also chooses their operator carefully.

 

[Kevrumbo]

I wouldn't debate you could survive nine hours in Indonesian waters quite comfortably: I've met someone who was drifting off Morotai for over 24 hours before a fishing boat picked him up (it felt like being born again, apparently).

But why do you think nine hours is the "worst case" scenario, here? We're talking about vast search areas - you can easily drift 10km in an hour in Indonesia, giving you a circle diameter of 20km, and that's assuming that it only takes an hour for your PLB location to reach the search boat and the search boat to reach that approximate location, which is optimistic. And you're looking at one or two boats with limited communication and navigation facilities. . .

The original post linked the article about Canadian Diver drifting 24km over 9hrs -which was worst case relative to his ordeal- given his initial account of surfacing with the boat and crew in the distance within sight, but with the horrifying realization of being unable to attract their attention as he and his buddy drifted away.

The lesson learned is you don't ever count on being lucky and fortunate enough to be spotted by a passing cargo vessel nine hours later, when there are technological means of preparation beforehand to be positively located, identified and having a coordinated search initiated for you.

. . .I'd love to see an example where these sorts of precautions saved a life in places like Indonesia or the Philippines. I doubt there are any, and I'd guess that's because the type of person who dives with a PLB etc also chooses their operator carefully.

There's a more harrowing tale from the empty reaches of the Southern Indian Ocean:

In June 2010, 16-year-old Abby Sunderland attempted to break the record for being the youngest person ever to complete a solo sail around the world. But when she found herself stranded at sea after a storm damaged her boat, Abby's life was saved by a NASA-developed Personal Locator Beacon (PLB), which transmitted a distress signal to a Search and Rescue (SARSAT) satellite, 22,500 miles away in space. On October 25, 2010, Abby visited NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center to meet the team that developed this Search and Rescue technology more than 30 years ago.

Abby Sunderland - Wikipedia
Rescue of Youngest Solo Sailor to Attempt Non-Stop Circumnavigation

 

[PygmySeahorse]

There's a more harrowing tale in the empty reaches of the Southern Indian Ocean:
Rescue of Youngest Solo Sailor to Attempt Circumnavigation
Abby Sunderland - Wikipedia

So: a boat picked up the signal on its radio. Then Australia sent a plane to look for a boat, which is a *very* much larger object than a diver. It took 48 hours to rescue even then. And this is analogous to diving in Indonesia how? You think Australia is going to charter a Qantas jet every time they lose a diver or a surfer?! Or America's going to fuel one up and clear a flight path direct to the nearest international airport?

You keep stating as fact that there are technological means to identify you and locate you wherever you are in the world, and persist in believing that Indonesian operators and authorities in remote areas are capable of mounting "a coordinated search" for one, single missing diver. Not a boatload. Not a ferry. But one, single, solitary diver. There was a major search effort for the 7 divers because a) there were seven of them b) Japan threw its weight around c) it was a major news story that would have had a negative impact on Bali dive tourism, which is a cash cow and d) there are loads of boats around Bali and its waters are well charted.

A bunch of people who spend a lot of time in Indonesia have pointed out the various ways in which the overwhelming majority of Indonesian ops can't do this, and the infrastructure problems. If you must persist, please make your case by explaining why - against all the evidence - you think an Indonesian operator in a remote area will be able to mount a successful rescue attempt, and how a PLB will help? (And, why we're talking about Indonesia is that someone asked about Bali upthread.)

 

[DandyDon]

I'd love to see an example where these sorts of precautions saved a life in places like Indonesia or the Philippines.

Here are several dozen survivor stories. They are not sorted by location or type but still - some are pretty interesting: ACR ARTEXSurvivor Stories, EPIRB, PLB, ELT by ACR and Artex Products | ACR ARTEX

 

[PygmySeahorse]

Here are several dozen survivor stories. They are not sorted by location or type but still - some are pretty interesting: ACR ARTEXSurvivor Stories, EPIRB, PLB, ELT by ACR and Artex Products | ACR ARTEX

Thanks for this. The ones I've looked at are overwhelmingly from the first world: US, Australia, New Zealand, France and Portugal, though I did see one rescue of a boat in Venezuela. I also didn't see any divers.

My point is not that these things don't work: they're AMAZING if you've got the USCG on the other end, or the British coastguard, or the French coastguard, or the Aussie coastguard, all of which are well-resourced, or mountain search and rescue, or whatever.

It's that they don't work in places like (most of) Indonesia and (most of) the Philippines, because there isn't the infrastructure, either at government level or at operator level, to receive and act on the information sent in a timely fashion.

 

[Kevrumbo]

Thanks for this. The ones I've looked at are overwhelmingly from the first world: US, Australia, New Zealand, France and Portugal, though I did see one rescue of a boat in Venezuela. I also didn't see any divers.

My point is not that these things don't work: they're AMAZING if you've got the USCG on the other end, or the British coastguard, or the French coastguard, or the Aussie coastguard, all of which are well-resourced, or mountain search and rescue, or whatever.

It's that they don't work in places like (most of) Indonesia and (most of) the Philippines, because there isn't the infrastructure, either at government level or at operator level, to receive and act on the information sent in a timely fashion.

So: a boat picked up the signal on its radio. Then Australia sent a plane to look for a boat, which is a *very* much larger object than a diver. It took 48 hours to rescue even then. And this is analogous to diving in Indonesia how? You think Australia is going to charter a Qantas jet every time they lose a diver or a surfer?! Or America's going to fuel one up and clear a flight path direct to the nearest international airport?

You keep stating as fact that there are technological means to identify you and locate you wherever you are in the world, and persist in believing that Indonesian operators and authorities in remote areas are capable of mounting "a coordinated search" for one, single missing diver. Not a boatload. Not a ferry. But one, single, solitary diver. There was a major search effort for the 7 divers because a) there were seven of them b) Japan threw its weight around c) it was a major news story that would have had a negative impact on Bali dive tourism, which is a cash cow and d) there are loads of boats around Bali and its waters are well charted.

A bunch of people who spend a lot of time in Indonesia have pointed out the various ways in which the overwhelming majority of Indonesian ops can't do this, and the infrastructure problems. If you must persist, please make your case by explaining why - against all the evidence - you think an Indonesian operator in a remote area will be able to mount a successful rescue attempt, and how a PLB will help? (And, why we're talking about Indonesia is that someone asked about Bali upthread.)

Simply because you keep on coming up with lame and specious excuses in what you cannot do over there in Indonesia, and to justify fatalistically go into a remote part of the offshore world unprepared at all for a "lost at sea" last resort contingency.

Again, your location is known, your identity is known, your Emergency Contact verifies you are indeed the owner of the PLB which was activated. . . Use your contingency resources that you smartly left with your Emergency Contact beforehand to initiate and expedite SAR efforts.

 

[PygmySeahorse]

Simply because you keep on coming up with specious excuses in what you cannot do over there in Indonesia....

What is "specious" about this? It's a fact that most Indonesian dive boats don't have radio, charts, mobile phone signal or significant reserves of fuel, let alone GPS; it's a fact that the majority of local-level SAR infrastructure is non-existent, with police and army boats routinely broken and rarely fueled; it's a fact that Indonesian marine maps are routinely wrong and islands have inconsistent names. If you could itemise which of these facts you consider untrue, that would help.

You also appear to believe that you're going to somehow manage to get a USCG-level SAR effort going around remote Indonesian/Philippine islands. This is just bizarre. It's not how things work in this part of the world.

 

[Kevrumbo]

What is "specious" about this? It's a fact that most Indonesian dive boats don't have radio, charts, mobile phone signal or significant reserves of fuel, let alone GPS; it's a fact that the majority of local-level SAR infrastructure is non-existent, with police and army boats routinely broken and rarely fueled; it's a fact that Indonesian marine maps are routinely wrong and islands have inconsistent names. If you could itemise which of these facts you consider untrue, that would help.

You also appear to believe that you're going to somehow manage to get a USCG-level SAR effort going around remote Indonesian/Philippine islands. This is just bizarre. It's not how things work in this part of the world.

Because in spite of all these supposed factual "iniquities" that you come up with @PygmySeahorse , the PLB signal is still being tracked and position fixed. . . Not to go out and save a person's life and yet knowing where that person is -->IS absolutely criminal and inhumane.

(Argue for your limitations @PygmySeahorse , they're all just yours. . .)

 

[PygmySeahorse]

Because in spite of all these supposed factual "iniquities" that you come up with @PygmySeahorse , the PLB signal is still being tracked and position fixed. . .

Argue for your limitations @PygmySeahorse , they're all just yours. . .

I don't think you know what "iniquity" means any better than you know what "specious" means, but, whatever. If you dispute any of the statements I (and others) have made, you're welcome to cite your evidence.

My point is really simple: if there is no one in reach equipped to receive and act on the position, the signal is damn-near useless. These things work great when the USCG can pick it up. They won't work in most of Indonesia and the Philippines.

Fancy language like "activate your contingency resources" means absolutely jack if your contingency resources turn out to be two local boat captains who can't read a chart or communicate with their home base, a marine commando unit 150km away with their long-range boat out of action, and some arse-coverer in Jakarta/Manila lying to your embassy about the massive SAR efforts taking place around the island because they're too embarrassed to admit they don't have gas/spare parts/men/phone signal. If this sounds like exaggeration to you, can I suggest you spend some time in the places you're currently arguing about?