Cochran dive computers... good or bad?

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This has been a great thread. I made the impulse decision to buy a Gemini aginst my better judgment about not liking gas integrated computers, but my decision was based on the fact that the Navy has decided to use Cochran, therefore some thing must be right. That of course does not take into account that the Navy dictated the algorithm on the unit they are using.

Tri mix aside, and I don't do caves. I take it that by diving a Cochran at closer to 0% conservatism you are closer to what you would get working the dive up on a table. I have always found the Oceanic and teh Sherwood I used previously to be closer to the DSAT/PADI table, yet I could always justify the dive by recaculating with the Navy table if the computers blew the DSAT/PADI NDL. I understand that non-square profiles on a computer will provide more bottom time than a table dive.

DA Aquamaster mentioned a bottom timer. Does anyone have information on what types/brands are available? I use to use an Oceanic but they discontinued making them way back in the early '90s.
 
Mud,

Get a cheap computer that also has gauge mode. I run a Uwatec BT and an Oceanic Veo250. For recreational profiles I run the Veo250 in computer mode while in decompression profiles I run it in gauge mode, as a bottom timer. Paying hundreds of dollars for a unit that's strictly a BT and has no algorithm is simply absurd when you can buy quality pieces that you can also run algorithms on at your discretion......and for less money.

I might consider giving up my Uwatec if you're interested....maybe it'll jump start me on that Shearwater!
 
+1.

I also dive an Uwatec Bottom Timer and I really like it a lot in terms of being reliable, easy to read, log functions, etc. But the retail price is such that another $100-$150 will get you a fully functional 2 gas computer computer.

For example the Nitek Duo, Tusa IQ 700 and Aladin Tec 2G run around $440 retail and all three offer 2 gas nitrox deco computer capability with gauge modes that can be used to back up deeper trimix dives.
 
Right. The way I want to implement a computer is plan my dive using my v-planner desktop software to see how long I'm thinking of staying and how long I can stay while maintaining proper gas planning. Have tables in pocket with bottom timer on wrist, but use them as backup. I'm going to ride the computer as my primary means to decompression after planning out how long I can stay and familiarizing myself with different profiles.

A computer is a very expensive "back-up" device to tables, especially when it can't compute lost gas, which is one very good reason to need a contingency plan that actually does happen. So the Cochran is not really backing up much, IMHO, other than I stayed X minutes longer/shorter, or X feet deeper/shallower. Shame, it looks like an OK unit besides that.
It's a philosophical issue, but my opinion is that riding the computer is already half way to a chamber ride.
If I plan the dive and dive the plan I have no need for anything other than the tables and bottom timer and more importantly I know exactly how many stops I have, the first stop depth, how much time I have at each stop and my total ascent time - and I know I have figured my gas planning on exactly that information and will consequently be fat on gas with at least a 1/3rd reserve as long as I start the ascent at or above X pressure.

You have no idea how far that goes to de-stress a dive. With a computer, you have to use a software planning function (which the Cochran Analyst Pro software has) in order to know where you will be in terms of first stop, stop times and total ascent time. And once you are in the water, the computer tracks things differently based on the acutal dive, not max depth and time parameters and the numbers it finally gives may differ significantly from what you planned - creating stress as your computer demands you do something that varies from the gas plan.

If your computer does not use exactly the same deco model as your planning software or table, you start out with an even larger variance between gas plan and the actual deco.

So while it sounds strange to use the computer as backup, it is a lot more comforting for divers who like to know exactly how things are progressing and exactly how the dive will unfold.

And in the event you do have a lost gas issue, the only change needed is to flip to the right page on the wrist slate or in the wet notes and ascend using the contingency deco for loss of either deco gas or your single deco gas. Again,this results in a much smoother transition than messing with the computer to select a new deco gas, resulting in less immediate stress. More importantly, with the computer and the new gas parameters, you will not know exactly what profile it will provide, creating more long term stress about whether you can safely finish the dive.

Now if the computer and tables or your planning software match very well and/or if you plan all the lost gas contingencies on the computer's planning software you can get to the same level of confidence with your computer - but you still need to put the deco schedule and contingencies on a slate in the event the computer fails - so to do it right with a computer as your primary involves about twice the pre-planning work. Consequently, due to the higher work load the diver gets complacent then gets sloppy, then gets hurt when the unexpected happens.

So again, my feeling is that the ideal role for a computer on any dive with significant deco is as a backup to your tables or PC sioftware generated plan in order to get you to the surface quicker if you abort in the middle of the dive due to an emergency. I won't know the exact profile on the way up, but I do know it will be much shorter than the profile I planned ensuring loads of excess gas.
 
I agree, the lack of the ability to reject a scheduled gas switch is odd and such a feature would make the Cochran much more popular.

On the other hand when you are diving trimix and at depths where trimix is essential, the deco planning is only a small part of the overall plan. If a diver is computer dependent they are prone to jumping in with full back gas and deco bottles and then turning on pressure with a general idea of where they will be in terms of time and then ride the computer to the surface with a bottom timer and tables or custom backup and contingency plans on a slate.

I tend to go the other way. I will plan the dive from a time/depth/deco perspective with gas planning to ensure I am within a fairly conservative 1/3rd reserve and then ensure the back gas reserve and deco gas amounts are aedquate to handle the loss of either deco gas on a two deco gas dive, or in the event of a single gas dive that the back gas reserve is enough to do the longer back gas deco required.

Then during the dive, the bottom timer is the primary source of information, the custom deco plan and lost gas contingecies are on the slate and the computer is basically just back up and a short cut to the surface in the event of an early abort. In that regard the Cochran's limitation in not being able to cancel a planned gas switch is not much of a limitation in an offshore deep trimix dive. As indicated previously however, it is a potential PITA in a cave.

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The X1 is expensive, then needs $175 worth of software to boot. Plus it is basically a one man operation and relies on a rehcargeable non user replaceable battery, so if the one man decides to quit, dies, goes out of business for any reason you have a really expensive paperweight.

I like the Shearwater pursuit. The small company suffers from some of the same potential limitations, but the price point is much better and like Cochran you can start out nitrox only for well under $1000 and then upgrade later to add gases and flexibility as you move into more advanced diving.

I recently tried the Nitek X and was frankly not real impressed with the in water performance. At $1000 or maybe even $1200 I'd view it differently, but it just does not offer nearly enough for a $1600 computer.

For florida cave diving at nitrox depths, I recently opted for an Aladin Tec 2G as it does everything I require with low cost, good download capability, an inuititive interface and the ability to easily adjust the levels of conservatism.

...good point about the X1 non-user-replacable battery....why on God's green earth, in this modern day and age......would anyone make a non-user-replaceable-battery computer ??? ...I'll never...ever....never.....ever.....never...did I mention 'NEVER' !!! ??? buy such a dive computer !
 
I have a Cochran EMC-20H with all the bells and whistles. Got mine as part of a hardware-purchase. I had some issues upgrading the 2FO2/2PO2 to 3FO2/2PO2 (long story) and then further issues with cracked cases, but eventually I have a rather nice unit.

HOWEVER. I dive a rebreather, and use the constant PO2 function. I ABSOLUTELY HATE the fact that this unit does not have any way to switch to bailout should the need arise. As they have the tap screen (which is pretty much useless as it stands), they could have easily implemented a simply "TAP SCREEN FOR BAILOUT" to allow you to then us the OC plan and gas switches. Unfortunately, this does not exist and so if you bail out, better carry tables.

I do love the big NDL countdown timer on the unit.

-S
 
...good point about the X1 non-user-replacable battery....why on God's green earth, in this modern day and age......would anyone make a non-user-replaceable-battery computer ??? ...I'll never...ever....never.....ever.....never...did I mention 'NEVER' !!! ??? buy such a dive computer !

No O rings to fail so should be more reliable.No chance of "battery bounce" causing malfunctions.
If money is no object then the X1 is probably the best Trimix computer in existence. The non user replaceable battery made it a non starter for me though.
 
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No O rings to fail so should be more reliable.No chance of "battery bounce" causing malfunctions.
If money is no object then the X1 is probably the best Trimix computer in existence. The non use replaceable battery made it a non starter for me though.

...better hurry up and e-mail the U.S. Navy, apparently they've foolishly chosen to equip our fighting forces with a dangerously unreliable 'O-ring-O'-Death' computer !
 
Mud,

I use an Uwatec Bottom Timer.

Uwatec Product Reviews and Ratings - Computers - Digital 328 ft. Bottom Timer (W-BT) from Leisure Pro

Have had the one I have now since 2002 timeframe, it has performed flawlessly.

(Its data output is strictly limited, but within its parameters it performs very well.)

FWIW.

Doc

Thanks, I miss my old Oceanic botom timer. It had a basic analog depth guage with max depth needle and a simple digital timer that started when you hit 3' fsw +/-

Oceanic traded it out for a DataMax Sport when I sent it in for a battery change (the bottom time was in a glued close housing). Now I wish they had not done that.
 

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