Compensation for Scuba Classes

[formernuke]

I would think that getting paid in store credit (or other perks, etc.) is not comparable to getting free room & board. As far as basic living expenses, after room & board what's left-- Cable TV & gas?

Yes and no, compensation is compensation, just ask the IRS. Yes I'm playing devils advocate to a degree here. Let's say you come help me with my renovations just because your a nice guy we are friends and bored etc. Even though you didn't ask I give you a 6 pack of beer and order a pizza. I have compensated you whatever to cost of the pizza and beer are.

Another example for a while when I first joined I was only getting base pay at I think around 1200 a month. I lived in the barracks and ate at the chow hall, even cable and phone were included. So by my paycheck I made 1200 a month but i didn't have to pay rent, buy food or pay cable or phone so i was making more in total.

 

[TMHeimer]

Yes and no, compensation is compensation, just ask the IRS. Yes I'm playing devils advocate to a degree here. Let's say you come help me with my renovations just because your a nice guy we are friends and bored etc. Even though you didn't ask I give you a 6 pack of beer and order a pizza. I have compensated you whatever to cost of the pizza and beer are.

Another example for a while when I first joined I was only getting base pay at I think around 1200 a month. I lived in the barracks and ate at the chow hall, even cable and phone were included. So by my paycheck I made 1200 a month but i didn't have to pay rent, buy food or pay cable or phone so i was making more in total.

Well yes, I see what you're saying. I your case here you could probably have pocketed the whole $1,200 (that's what I'd have done). And yes, Trimix fills are very expensive.
I guess we'll just "sort of" agree to disagree. If I'm a scuba instructor (or DM, but that's a whole 'nuther story--seems most of them receive no salary and still work for just perks), I'm not working an OW course for 2 weekends (each day maybe 7:30 A.M. to 5) for anything but money. In probably a majority of the cases in Canada & U.S. that means these people are working 16 days straight since they have regular "day jobs" Mon.-Fri. Do two OW courses in a row and that's 32 days. Yes, if someone chooses to do that for compensation other than salary it's their choice. It would never be mine, and I feel it is detrimental to those who seek a decent salary, perhaps even to survive teaching scuba and working in a shop.

 

[formernuke]

Well yes, I see what you're saying. I your case here you could probably have pocketed the whole $1,200 (that's what I'd have done). And yes, Trimix fills are very expensive.
I guess we'll just "sort of" agree to disagree. If I'm a scuba instructor (or DM, but that's a whole 'nuther story--seems most of them receive no salary and still work for just perks), I'm not working an OW course for 2 weekends (each day maybe 7:30 A.M. to 5) for anything but money. In probably a majority of the cases in Canada & U.S. that means these people are working 16 days straight since they have regular "day jobs" Mon.-Fri. Do two OW courses in a row and that's 32 days. Yes, if someone chooses to do that for compensation other than salary it's their choice. It would never be mine, and I feel it is detrimental to those who seek a decent salary, perhaps even to survive teaching scuba and working in a shop.

To each there own. You might be right people being willing to teach for just perks might be detrimental I don't know. What everyone considers reasonable is personal.

For example after I got out I swore I would never work another job that doesn't pay overtime. You want me over 40 hours a week your going to pay me for it. 45k a year with free medical in your 20's with no degree isn't bad except for 107 hour average work weeks, then it gets old real quick.

 

[wnissen]

I'm amazed some of these arrangements are legal. The IRS has a complicated test for whether someone is truly an independent contractor, and often it seems like the instructors are not. The shop schedules the classes, provides the space, often the materials. Just because someone is willing to work for gear, or discounts on gear does not mean that the shop is in compliance with minimum wage laws. The penalties for wage fraud in California are quite stiff, though not often levied, to be sure.

 

[Esprise Me]

I highly doubt they're legal. I don't practice in this area, but I did take employment law, where I learned that very few of the people classified as independent contractors actually qualify as such. Employers mostly get away with it, but they're just one whistle-blower away from getting caught.

 

[formernuke]

Outside my realm, when I practiced it was crim law. You also start getting tax law involved which is a huge nightmare from what I remember of it.

I was playing devil's advocate to keep the discussion going and saying that for some people a barter rather than cash could be reasonable assuming the goods are of acceptable value.

 

[TMHeimer]

I'm amazed some of these arrangements are legal. The IRS has a complicated test for whether someone is truly an independent contractor, and often it seems like the instructors are not. The shop schedules the classes, provides the space, often the materials. Just because someone is willing to work for gear, or discounts on gear does not mean that the shop is in compliance with minimum wage laws. The penalties for wage fraud in California are quite stiff, though not often levied, to be sure.

Yes, I forgot that someone on a past thread made this same point. I guess it's just an example of the many "under the table" deals the IRS just doesn't know about. Like getting paid for something in cash and not reporting it. And you gotta watch out for the IRS, as they are perceived to always be out to get you (unlike our good old CRA in Canada).
Maybe a lawyer could post and clearify what constitutes working as a job at an LDS as opposed to say DMing on courses just to be a good guy and do the owner a favour. Ie.- "Help out with courses and I'll give you perks" or "help me move from my apartment and there are 6 beer in it for you".
There's also the difference between verbal & written contracts as viewed by the IRS.

 

[Rickk]

When I ran my own small engineering consulting firm I looked into the difference between an employee and a contractor.



Factors considered.



Do you set own hours?

Are you providing a defined service, not hourly paid?

Do you provide own equipment/facilities etc.?

Do you have an opportunity to make a profit? That is can you make additional profit by controlling expenses and time?

Are you are risk of a loss? Can you actually lose money on the job?

Defined start and end dates or deliverables?

Do you have all required tax numbers and accounts?

Are you incorporated? (you can incorporate and then be an employee of the business you own.)

Do you have other clients?



I would guess that if you go to the LDS, use their classroom, they get the students and bill them directly, set the course times/schedule, pay the pool rental and provide all the gear and you only work for the one LDS it would be pretty clear that you were an employee not a independent contractor. On the other hand if you get the students, bill them and rent the space and equipment from the LDS then you could be a contractor.



In my company I worked on a project basis, I would have one client providing the majority of my income for as long as 2 years. I would take small jobs, sometimes only reaching 1% of my revenue from 3 or 4 other clients to keep my independent status clear, I supplied as much equipment as I could as well. Although engineering is typically an hourly based field, I liked to charge a lump sum for the project for all costs that I could control. ( I would bundle my time, an assistant’s if possible, and all rental into a fixed monthly or project fee.)



Of course I am an engineer not a tax lawyer, so if this is a concern, get independent advice specific to your situation.

 

[Ben_3]

This is becoming interesting.

Maybe the small amount of money one gets can be perceived as tips..?

 

[tridacna]

All going to change in NJ now. Thanks to new payroll laws, Instructors will be FTEs soon...