computer dependent divers...

[BigJetDriver]

AFAIK, the VR-3 and the H-S Explorer are the only two with the maximum number of gas choices, included deep-stop construction, extended parameter control, and dual-phase models. The H-S is the only one in its class with full RGBM.

To refer again to my first post above, in essence I am saying:

(1) Use brain first.

(2) Use computer as tool.

(3) Be sure to continue to use brain.

(4) Repeat as necessary!

As Mr. Natural always said: "Get the right tool for the job, kids!"

:doctor:

Just a repeat! Cheers!

 

[rjchandler]

This is the most ridiculous thread i have ever read. A computer is a tool. Use it just like the one you are typing on. If you don't want to then don't, that's fine, keep yourself away from modern technology. Perhaps you can fax your replys in from an old typewriter. Smart!

If you don't want to use the technology at hand then don't. Its all up to you, just don't ***** and moan about people who do.

3000+ dives all with a computer! Using one is an intelligent safety device.


As i said...absolutely the most pointless argument/thread i have ever read.

Do a search. You'll find many others on this same subject.

 

[dweeb]

wow, you make it seem like i'm stupid!!

No, I don't think you're stupid, but some of your statements imply YOU aren't too sure on the subject.
First and foremost, you need to have more confidence in your own abilities, and not act like the talking Barbie doll that had feminists outraged when it said "Math is hard!" I'm saying you should learn to use the tables, because I have more confidence in your ability to learn than you do.

no, i will not ask an engineer how my comp works. i don't care, it just works. i'm not a programmer or a hacker or a computer fixer whatever.

Anyway, that's NOT what I suggested. I said ask an engineer to explain the difference between PASSIVE and ACTIVE technology. That has almost nothing to do with how your computer works. It has to do with why your computer is inherently WAY less reliable than all your other equipment.

just cause i don't see the point in using tables or trusting tables over my computer, doesn't mean i don't know how.

YOU are the one who said the computer was more reliable than your working the tables. If you'd learned what I suggested, rather than get passionate about not learning, you'd realize what that statement implies about your ability to work the tables.

it's just a hassle getting into it again, when i don't need it. i seriously think my computer is more reliable

In that, if you do know how as you claim, then you are wrong in this assumption.

and an important part of my gear. it's there for that purpose only, me?, i often have other things on my mind to distract me and interrupt my calculations.

Do you really want to go on record saying that such a simple thing is that mentally taxing for you?

adding to that as far as i've read all agencies use diferent tables which also calculate differently. i might be mistaken! but how do you know which of these agencies provide the most accurate table?

And computers use different algorithms. How do you know which one provides the most accurate? It seems what you are defending here is your decision not to think.

and i'd be very happy if my buddy had the exact same computer, means he has a good one and one i know how to read without effort.

And increases the likelihood that both will fail at once.

 

[dweeb]

I couldn't help noticing that you probably don't do to meny multi level dives. the tables you refer too can't help with that.

In that you are incorrect. The tables can be used very easily for multi-level diving. The technique isn't taught any more because of computers, but if you're sharp, you should be able to figure out how it's done.

They also come in handy for altitude diving and po2 loading. I dive a computer all the time and I'm still around

Read what Daphne wrote again. Read what I wrote again.
Read my other posts in this thread. Have you figured out your mistake yet? Want some help? OK

I NEVER SAID THERE WAS ANYTHING WRONG WITH COMPUTERS.
I HAVE 3 OF THEM.
Computers are like guns - they can be used very responsibly, or in a very dangerous manner.

Daphne made it clear that she is treating the computer like pure magic. That is a foolish approach to any technology.
Ever hear the story of the sorceror's apprentice? The moral of that fable is that one should not make use of or depend upon that which one does not understand.

 

[dweeb]

Only parts of them, and it isn't usually intentional. Numbers have a way of sticking in my head.

Same here, which is why I avoid remembering them whenever possible.

 

[dweeb]

Sorry, but comparing Blue Screen of Death or Pentium Bug to a dive computer really dosen't apply.
Dive computer are not computers at all, they are simple calculating devices.

You are incorrect. They are computers. They have a microprocessor, running a kernel and an application, usually combined. They handle their own I/O.
I've worked on software for one.

Did you EVER encounter the Pentium calculation error.

Yes, in one case,80 times a minute for a whole week. The only reason it didn't cost lots of money is that the system didn't have the reject enabled because it was still in acceptance testing. I wrote code to work around it.

I highly highly doubt it. I had computers with the bug, not a thing wrong with them,

Well, if all you ever used it for was playing Doom, or typing Word documents, that's nderstandable.

Blue screen of death isn't caused by the computer,

Never said it was. It's a software issue.

You're not installing other hardware devices or software on your dive computer.

Don't need to. I've handled software QA, and I've worked on embedded real time applications, where nothing else could be installed, and I know what can go wrong.

Two things can really affect a dive comp. 1) Software programming errors, such as Uwatec programming the SI to use the tables as if you were still breathing Nitrox. 2) Hardware failure.

Exactly, and either can take months or years to manifest itself. For instance, poor control of mobile charge contamination in semiconductor production can take quite a while to show up.

The latter can happen in any device.

And it does.

The former is very rare, and frankly, less likely than a person making a critical mistake using the wheel. Staight tables are easier, but provide less bottom time.

It's not that rare, and there are ways to get everything out of the tables that you can get from that abomination, the Wheel.

 

[alemaozinho]

I've noticed something lately. When I go dive with a diver using a computer (I'm old school, depth gauge and watch) at the end of the dive when we go to fill out our logs the first thing they do is ask me what was our max depth and bottom time, or they run off to grab their computer to see what it says.
Once I hit my max depth, I know my max depth for the remainder of the dive and am aware of my bottom time as soon as my head pops the surface.
It seems as though all these computer divers are looking at is the NDL or time remaining (if even that...).
Anyone else see a similar trend?

i,m compressed air and gear dependent,i do breathe too.Peace

 

[DutchDown]

All the discussion about Pentium bugs as a reason not to rely on dive computers puzzles me a bit. Didn't PADI recall some of it's RDPs last year due to printing errors? Seems like the same thing to me.

Just my 2 Euro cents.

Phil

 

[underwater daphne]

No, I don't think you're stupid, but some of your statements imply YOU aren't too sure on the subject.
First and foremost, you need to have more confidence in your own abilities, and not act like the talking Barbie doll that had feminists outraged when it said "Math is hard!" I'm saying you should learn to use the tables, because I have more confidence in your ability to learn than you do.



Anyway, that's NOT what I suggested. I said ask an engineer to explain the difference between PASSIVE and ACTIVE technology. That has almost nothing to do with how your computer works. It has to do with why your computer is inherently WAY less reliable than all your other equipment.




YOU are the one who said the computer was more reliable than your working the tables. If you'd learned what I suggested, rather than get passionate about not learning, you'd realize what that statement implies about your ability to work the tables.



In that, if you do know how as you claim, then you are wrong in this assumption.



Do you really want to go on record saying that such a simple thing is that mentally taxing for you?



And computers use different algorithms. How do you know which one provides the most accurate? It seems what you are defending here is your decision not to think.



And increases the likelihood that both will fail at once.

i just can't agree.

first of all, i know how to use the tables as i am a certified diver!

secondly i don't use the tables, i use a computer!

third you can always be distracted. the phone could ring, your kids could scream, etc. doesn't mean you can't start again or continue and still do it right, but my comp will not have any probs with things like this.

it's easier, just as reliable, ergo better!

next a lil snippet from the naui course book:

"Some suggest planning dives with the Dive Tables or a dive calculator as a contingency plan for computer diving. Because of the computer's capability for multilevel calculating, however, this practice usually is not feasible, although it is possible with some computers. Generally, you cannot revert to the Dive Tables if the computer fails or is accidentally switched off. Your only option in this case ar to discontinue diving for 24h or to limit any subsequent dives during that day to depths of 20 feet or less. Computer diving is easier than diving with manual calculations, but you must always be able to use the Dive Tavles and Dive Calculator if a computer is not available".

so again, i see no point in using a comp and a table. there is absolutely nothing wrong in depending on a computer!

and the chances of 2 DIVE computers failing at once! sorry, but that is practically impossible! and is totally irrelevant.

and cause i really don't want to fight about this. you use your tables and dive safely. i'll use my comp and dive safely. we'll both be happy and probably live long lives!!

 

[String]

"Some suggest planning dives with the Dive Tables or a dive calculator as a contingency plan for computer diving. Because of the computer's capability for multilevel calculating, however, this practice usually is not feasible, although it is possible with some computers. Generally, you cannot revert to the Dive Tables if the computer fails or is accidentally switched off.

No idea where that load of junk came from, of course you can use tables as a bailout for a dead computer.

Quite simply you assume a square profile dive at the maximum depth the computer logged - that will be less efficient and leave you hanging probably longer than you need to but it will get you out of the water.
Yes all tables and all computers use slightly different algorthyms but the differences arent enough to stop this bailout.