Considering PADI master diver

[fisherdvm]

For those lovely lady divers :

How about us manly man?? And those so, so, looking ladies??

 

[josh]

According to the statistics professor who was on my PhD committee, the first rule of data analysis is: “Hell hath no fury as an unwarranted assumption.”

Oh, bugger. You have a PhD? Well, I really had better listen to you then hadn't I? Oh, wait, I got one of those little rascals as well....

You need some more statistical training than you have received to date. Statistics is ENTIRELY the analysis of COMPLETE sample data sets to enable us to predict the makeup of larger sampled populations. Incomplete data sets and poor sampling design make for bogus statistics and can only be viewed, at best, as exploratory data analysis. You should read Tukey’s book on the subject (Tukey, John (1977), Exploratory Data Analysis, Addison-Wesley).

OK. Now, thank you for the sage advice. Now here is a piece for you : Join the 21st Century. Its quite OK here....

References and books for *you* to help you update yourself (just a few links, I could post another several hundred for you):

A paper from 2003:
http://csdl2.computer.org/persagen/...03/06/k6toc.xml&DOI=10.1109/TKDE.2003.1245289

A course you could try and sign up with at UCLA:

M232. Statistical Analysis of Incomplete Data. (4) (Same as Biomathematics M232). Lecture, three hours; discussion, one hour. Requisite: Statistics 100B. Discussion of statistical analysis of incomplete data sets, with material from sample survey, econometric, biometric, psychometric, and general statistical literature. Topics include treatment of missing data in statistical packages, missing data in ANOVA and regression imputation, weighting, likelihood-based methods, and nonrandom nonresponse models. Emphasis on application of methods to applied problems, as well as on underlying theory. S/U or letter grading

http://www.biostat.ucla.edu/course/course.htm


Or even a couple of books you could try to read:

Missing data
http://www.amazon.ca/gp/reader/0761...vEuODPxtDwhL2/+uL4CI1yIhOnpt1hzU=#reader-link

or even this one:
Statistical Analysis with Missing Data, Second Edition
http://www.amazon.ca/Statistical-An...3865/ref=pd_bxgy_b_text_b/702-9022888-1322457


Statistics has moved on. You should try to as well.

Safe means “without risk,” this is clearly not the case.

Smart lad. But note I said "safer" not "safe"

There is no need to waste resources studying the obvious. I suspect that all parties involved will stipulate to the habitat destruction. We are currently facing much more critical problems to which our scientific resources need to be applied.

LOL. So I suggest something practical that would give Mike a solid ground for his complaints, and now its "wasting resources". Ah. Being a blowhard and ranting is *some much* more satisfying than actually doing something eh?

Please, take two aspirin, three deep breaths … and call us after you’ve read Tukey’s book.

LOL. A reference to a thirty year old text book again. According to your bio, you are only about 4 years older than I am - but man, the sad, really sad, thing is that you are basically fixed 30 years ago (the odd reference to "the force" merely re-inforces that). The world has moved on, you have not. Try to get with the new reality.
-j-

 

[Thalassamania]

Phew, I guess we hit a raw nerve there. Sorry dude.

 

[josh]

Josh, you are getting too wrap up with these folks... Getting mad at them doesn't do your blood pressure anygood...

Not mad, more amused. We have progressed from "the current training is insufficient and dangerous" to "it stirs up a lot of silt". Wonder where it will go next?

More important than anything posted here, how the heck did you get to stay in Thailand??

Fortunate enough to have a professional job that is in demand here (which at the moment seems to only serve to support my diving!!).

How's the weather there? The food? Is it worth the money to visit and dive there??

The weather is chilly at the moment (hahaha). We are all *****ing like crazy as the water temp has been down to 26oC over the last couple of weeks (I can hear groans at that one). Diving in Thailand varies from the "OK" to the "awesome". I dive most weekends at pattaya and samaesan (about 2 hours drive from bangkok). Viz varies, but normally around 4 to 10 meters. Most dives are either coral or "muck", with the muck diving being more interesting (lots of interesting little critters). We often dive a superb wreck (Hardeep, a freighter sunk in 1940) which can be challenging (high currents, top 16 meters, bottom about 28). Few other wrecks around (deliberately sunk boats) which also can be challenging. However, that said, I would not recommend pattaya as a place to specifically travel to to go to dive.

Further afield though (my "ive been a good boy trips)we have the Similans which are world class. 40 meter viz, whale sharks, mantas and abundant marine life. Need a live aboard to properly enjoy which can get expensive. Cheaper is Koh Tao, an island not far from Samui which offers great diving as well.

All in all, Thailand is not a bad place to be. You also get the chance to dive the region as well, and I have dived Indonesia and vietnam as well and I still have a lot of places on the "to do" list.....

Culturally, an interesting place to be though.
-j-

 

[Web Monkey]

Oh, bugger. You have a PhD? Well, I really had better listen to you then hadn't I? Oh, wait, I got one of those little rascals as well....
-j-

There's a considerable difference between analysis with incomplete data and analysis with no data.

There is no data (accurate or otherwise) available for how many active divers there are, how many dives are done each year, what certifications the divers have or how much time is spent underwater or in which locations.

The only way your PhD would help here is if you got it from The Amazing Kreskin.

Terry

 

[josh]

There's a considerable difference between analysis with incomplete data and analysis with no data.

OK. Up to you. Keep on throwing away what data there is, saying it is "flawed", "wrong" or "incorrect". Ignore people like DAN who say diving is getting safer. Make up your own "theories" based on your own biases. Just do not expect the rest of us to buy into it.
-j-

 

[MikeFerrara]

OK. Up to you. Keep on throwing away what data there is, saying it is "flawed", "wrong" or "incorrect". Ignore people like DAN who say diving is getting safer. Make up your own "theories" based on your own biases. Just do not expect the rest of us to buy into it.
-j-

I guess we're still focused on safety and ignoring everything else.

ok, but DAN data does not show that diving is getting safer. Accident counts have been pretty steady for many years. I guess we've decided that dive instruction just can't get any better than it is?

 

[drew52]

People like DAN are apparently sucking stuff out of their thumbs, there is apparently no Data for their findings. It is all bad training by PADI, all the other agencies are doing a great job. It's all PADI, their training is killing people and causing many dive accidents. Oh hang on it is just PADI who started the rot and the other agencies standards and training also sucks and this is what is causing the deaths and accidents. Oh but wait we don't need deaths and accidents to know training is bad. Training is not actually causing this all that much it is just ensuring all divers can't dive. You know what this means? This means people aren't having fun and are ruining the environment because it is the sand from their kicking that is destroying the reef.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Did anyone read Thals post comparing dive industry fatality numbers with football?

If we're going to waste time comparing diving to other sports and focus on accident numbers, lets do it for real.

 

[Thalassamania]

Hey guys, fatalities are only one measure, that others, and likely more sensitive, injuries and dropouts are completely unknown.