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Current State Of Rebreather Electronics

Discussion in 'Rebreather Diving' started by AdamSa, Sep 2, 2019.

  1. silent running

    silent running Manta Ray

    # of Dives: 1,000 - 2,499
    Location: Brooklyn, N.Y. U.S.A.
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    In my opinion, safe CCR diving starts with having a full understanding of what is happening inside the unit and inside your body. I do not want to be infantilized buy a piece of gear which can malfunction and lacks the ability to problem solve like a fully informed CCR diver can.
     
  2. tbone1004

    tbone1004 Technical Instructor ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: I'm a Fish!
    Location: Greenville, South Carolina, United States
    16,173
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    @silent running are we really going to use obsolete rebreathers to talk about modern CCR design? I agree in keeping signal and power lines separate as is common in all normal electronic applications, but I don't think using ancient CCR tech to justify opposition to some current designs is the right answer
     
    KenGordon, stuartv and rjack321 like this.
  3. Peter Slater

    Peter Slater Solo Diver

    # of Dives: 50 - 99
    Location: Cleveland
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    I think silent running is referring to the prism topaz rebreather. It had cells that were powerful enough to directly drive an analog needle display without a power source. I don't know where to source those cells still but I do think that it is an interesting backup technology.
     
    silent running likes this.
  4. silent running

    silent running Manta Ray

    # of Dives: 1,000 - 2,499
    Location: Brooklyn, N.Y. U.S.A.
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    There is nothing obsolete about simplicity.

    First of all, everyone knows that until there is a new development in oxygen sensor technology there will be no major advancements in CCR design. And even if Poseidon brings their SSS to market, it will need a lot of power, and I for one do not want to be even more dependent on batteries underwater than we are now.

    My opposition is to further complexity without any big benefit and the blurring of the lines between fault tolerance and idiot proof. We all know that idiots do not belong at 100 m breathing hypoxic mix.

    I’m in favor of maximum diver awareness and involvement with the unit and the dive. I’m not in favor of any system which diminishes these capacities. I actually enjoy this type of maximum situational awareness, I find it relaxing and stimulating at the same time. I do not want to be lulled into a false state of comfort by bells and whistles and manufacturer hype while in the most human hostile environment on earth.
     
  5. silent running

    silent running Manta Ray

    # of Dives: 1,000 - 2,499
    Location: Brooklyn, N.Y. U.S.A.
    586
    66
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    I think AI sell them directly? I get mine from Steam Machines as they work with the supplier closely, so there is best QC...
     
  6. RainPilot

    RainPilot CCR Instructor Staff Member

    # of Dives: I just don't log dives
    Location: UAE
    4,087
    3,745
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    They are being used and sold for use in 3rd cell reader, takes power (very little) from the computer used to read it (digital so does require a small amount of power supply)

    I have had a multitude of sensors going weird on me over the years, never had a charged computer die on me so I’ll take that trade off anytime.

    I get that you’re a fan of mCCR, that’s fine. I am in a day job that had the same issues with automation initially but now it is the default. The fact is that the vast majority of aircraft fatalities are caused by human error not system failure, I would be surprised if CCR is any different.

    I personally don’t get smarter the deeper I go, the computer doesn’t care about narcosis and task loading etc.
     
    taimen and stuartv like this.
  7. stuartv

    stuartv Seeking the Light

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Manassas, VA
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    Yes. This. Thus what I said in the first place about tech developing from "I wouldn't trust that with my life" to "I don't even think about that."

    Someday, I expect that CCR divers will talk about O2 sensors in a way that signifies that it is just accepted that they work and nobody ever even thinks anymore about all the things we need to be prepared for with regards to O2 sensors failing or reading incorrectly.
     
  8. silent running

    silent running Manta Ray

    # of Dives: 1,000 - 2,499
    Location: Brooklyn, N.Y. U.S.A.
    586
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    Yes, sorry I forgot they are in market now. But if there are no big drawbacks, why haven’t they designed a new CCR around them?

    As I said a bunch above, I don’t like battery voltage underwater when it’s not absolutely necessary, but to each his own. Anything higher than MV and which needs 1ATA isolation is a liability in my opinion.

    Glad you’ve never had a computer die or fail underwater. It wasn’t that long ago that computers flooded regularly, they certainly haven’t been trouble free in any event.

    The airline industry is often cited in safety discussions about rebreathers. My problem with this is simple, The reason why avionics are so safe and automation so dependable in that industry is the enormous amount of money and time that went into developing those systems. The money, expertise and motivation were all present in abundance because of the millions of people who depend on air travel. It was an imperative from government, many businesses and probably the insurance industry. I doubt there are more than 10,000 active rebreather divers on the whole planet, and while I am impressed with much of the ingenuity and dedication some manufacturers have shown, there have also been some spectacularly bad designs and terrible mistakes made, and we know far less about hyperbaric medicine and deco theory than we do about air travel.

    I will be glad if CCR electronics get to the failsafe level of avionics, but I don’t want to be a physical or financial lab animal in what is likely to be a lengthy process...
     
  9. RainPilot

    RainPilot CCR Instructor Staff Member

    # of Dives: I just don't log dives
    Location: UAE
    4,087
    3,745
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    The Poseidon Seven with SSS was at a dive show two months ago, there were some issues with building a setup that would take either galvanic or SSS. Any Poseidon bought now will get a free upgrade to SSS capable, and the units being built from the start of next year will be SSS and galvanic compatible.

    The Dive By Wire system the Poseidons use also comes from aviation system architecture so in a sense the aviation industry RnD has helped with the evolution of their CCR.
     
  10. silent running

    silent running Manta Ray

    # of Dives: 1,000 - 2,499
    Location: Brooklyn, N.Y. U.S.A.
    586
    66
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    Thanks again for the info, but I don’t understand, if the sss is such an improvement, why even bother with galvanic sensors at all? Why are they being so tentative with this new technology?
     

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